Discovering Love, Life, and Laughter at 103: Dr. Gladys McGarey's Guide to Thriving Through Adventure and Compassion Across a Century

[00:00:00] This is the second time I've talked to Gladys MacGerry.

[00:00:11] Last year she was 102 years old, this year she's 103 years old.

[00:00:15] She wrote a book The Well-Lived Life, a 102 year old doctor's six secrets to health

[00:00:20] and happiness at every age and it's coming out in paperback.

[00:00:25] And every time I read this book, I've read it twice now and I talked to her.

[00:00:31] I almost feel like crying and I don't really know why.

[00:00:35] It's almost as if she was born with wisdom but then kept even growing for the next 102

[00:00:42] years.

[00:00:43] She drove a Ford Model A car and now she's talking to me through Zoom on the internet

[00:00:52] and going on podcasts, writing books.

[00:00:55] She's a doctor, her whole life.

[00:00:57] She's been all over the world.

[00:00:58] That's so many amazing experiences also has suffered of course much loss.

[00:01:03] I don't think you're gonna live to be that age and not have an incredible amounts of loss

[00:01:08] that you have to learn to move past and still be positive and still live every day

[00:01:14] to its fullest which I mean we've fought like Jay we get on Zoom with her and she's like

[00:01:21] oh I'm getting over my tricycle accident.

[00:01:25] She was writing a tricycle and threw her off into the street and she broke three ribs

[00:01:29] and she's now totally healed and on the podcast and as Jay was saying right afterwards

[00:01:34] boy, she's like a wise kung fu master.

[00:01:38] Well anyway, I really look up to this woman a lot.

[00:01:42] Here's Gladys McHary, we have a great conversation about all sorts of things and she's the author

[00:01:48] of the Well-lived Life.

[00:01:55] This isn't your average business podcast and he's not your average host.

[00:02:00] This is the James Altiger show.

[00:02:13] How are you feeling?

[00:02:14] I'm feeling fine.

[00:02:15] I had that accident with a tricycle broke three ribs but that's five weeks ago and I'm

[00:02:22] all well.

[00:02:24] Wait a second, you had an accident with a tricycle, you broke three ribs and of course any

[00:02:31] statement like that has to be followed with and now you're 103 or 104 years old how old

[00:02:35] are you?

[00:02:36] I'm 103 still.

[00:02:37] Okay, I don't wanna make you older than you are.

[00:02:41] I won't say no.

[00:02:43] I have to live each other moment to get to be 104 so I still am 103.

[00:02:50] You know and so okay you've had this tricycle accident, what happened?

[00:02:56] Well I was riding my tricycle and she got stuck in one of the dips in the road and tossed

[00:03:04] me.

[00:03:05] She threw me off and I'm back on my back and broke three ribs and now I've got I'm

[00:03:12] punishing her because she's in the back of my porch and I've told her she shouldn't have

[00:03:19] done that but anyway we're writing our story about how she tossed me.

[00:03:27] And can I ask were you scared when you realized you had been hurt?

[00:03:30] Well it hurt.

[00:03:32] I don't know whether I was scared or not, I guess I was but you know those things are frightening

[00:03:40] and I didn't know what had happened but I knew I heard.

[00:03:44] And so we got an X-ray and there it was and the first X-ray said that I had one of

[00:03:50] the ribs that was not attached.

[00:03:53] I mean it was you know it had not gotten it got not detached but the next X-ray got

[00:04:02] it at fond its place and we were bad shape.

[00:04:06] And now you're feeling fully recovered or mostly recovered?

[00:04:10] I'm not.

[00:04:11] It's healed.

[00:04:12] Oh my gosh.

[00:04:13] Well you know and this is why look in your book The Well-Lived Life you share these six secrets

[00:04:20] which really are more difficult than they sound a lot of these secrets.

[00:04:28] And you know I read the book I read the book a year ago when we first spoke and I've read

[00:04:32] the book more recently to prepare for this and I really find myself kind of in tears when

[00:04:38] I'm reading it particularly towards the end and you're describing you know painful experiences

[00:04:42] that you've been through.

[00:04:44] And I don't know this isn't a sound weird but I don't know if I want to live to be your

[00:04:50] age.

[00:04:51] Is that sound weird?

[00:04:52] No because I don't know that I want to live but how long I want to live that you know

[00:04:59] that's it depends on how much I can do to accomplish what needs to be accomplished.

[00:05:08] I mean there's lives that needs to be lived people that are reaching for their true humanity

[00:05:17] I think all around the world that's what's happening because that's what I'm hearing from

[00:05:22] people.

[00:05:23] The stories that I'm getting from people are about how they were in a spot where they

[00:05:31] were feel really really stuck and some of the words that they read or heard or are

[00:05:40] lived helped them to get out of that stuck place and go on with their lives.

[00:05:47] And so it's that kind of life giving juice that love carries through from one person

[00:05:56] to the next.

[00:05:57] Let me ask you like when you were going through your divorce for instance with Bill which

[00:06:04] happened after 46 years of marriage did you feel for instance loved during those moments?

[00:06:13] I was so shattered.

[00:06:15] I was so broken.

[00:06:17] I was totally useless.

[00:06:20] I was in my car.

[00:06:22] I was screaming at the universe.

[00:06:24] I was yelling at God.

[00:06:26] I was saying all kinds of you want to know, no, don't want to know and stuff but I was

[00:06:33] so broken that I just got into the point where I couldn't go on any further and I pulled

[00:06:44] the car over to the side of the road.

[00:06:47] And I said to myself, I'm going to spend the rest of my life this way feeling this way

[00:06:56] and the words came down to me.

[00:06:58] This is the day the Lord has made.

[00:07:01] Let us rejoice and be glad in it.

[00:07:05] It had my name in it.

[00:07:07] Be glad.

[00:07:09] Oh, okay, okay, I back up and I went to my home at that point was empty except for the

[00:07:21] dog.

[00:07:22] And I changed my license plate and the license plate read be glad for the rest of the time

[00:07:31] I was in Phoenix during my medical work.

[00:07:35] And so that every day that I went to my car, I had to see that and people behind me in

[00:07:44] the traffic had to see that.

[00:07:47] So I was carrying the message of be glad around for the rest of the time I was in practice

[00:07:54] here.

[00:07:56] It was that kind of a moment in time when my total brokenness brought me to my knees enough

[00:08:12] that I was able to answer that.

[00:08:15] Yeah, because you mentioned how people are trying to find their true humanity and how

[00:08:21] you say in the book is you're always identifying yourself as Bill's wife and then Bill's

[00:08:27] divorce wife and you guys introduce yourself as doctors, Bill and Gladys and you had to

[00:08:35] almost recreate you had to find your true humanity then.

[00:08:38] I had to, I then became Dr. Gladys up until then I was Bill and Gladys.

[00:08:46] Yeah.

[00:08:48] And you talk about how it's possible to learn lessons in these moments when it seems like

[00:08:54] it's impossible to learn from them.

[00:08:56] You look back over prior times where you had been hurt and you kind of have to almost have

[00:09:02] to make this lawyer argument with yourself that, okay, I've had bad moments in the past.

[00:09:07] I learned from them in the past which means I could learn from them now, which I think

[00:09:12] is an interesting and useful technique.

[00:09:15] But I'm sure when you're actually in the moment when you have to do that it's very difficult.

[00:09:19] Well, it's difficult because you don't know the next step and you have to live it.

[00:09:27] You know what's called the next step was okay, if this is what you're going to re-spend

[00:09:33] the rest of your life doing, face up to it.

[00:09:38] You know, and it was horrible.

[00:09:41] I mean the things I was saying, the things I was doing my whole life at that point was

[00:09:47] in tatters.

[00:09:50] So I had to do something with it.

[00:09:53] The important thing was just stop long enough to be glad about what it is and then see

[00:10:01] where you go.

[00:10:03] And that's what's happened.

[00:10:05] I mean, look, you've lived such an interesting life starting from your parents like your

[00:10:09] parents worked as doctors in India.

[00:10:15] You grew up all over the place.

[00:10:17] You've had so many interesting people and you've been all over the world.

[00:10:21] I mean, but it's hard to think like you're, I mean, you mentioned how you used to drive

[00:10:27] a Model A Ford.

[00:10:29] And now people are like casually going into space.

[00:10:33] It's almost like hard to grasp, but I wanted to ask you specific things.

[00:10:38] Like, you mentioned in the acknowledgments about Edgar Casey, for instance.

[00:10:42] So Edgar Casey is known for, you know, he had, he wrote books about having psychic powers

[00:10:50] and he was able to predict things.

[00:10:53] You were also met with, you know, so many times with Milton Erickson who was like the founder

[00:10:58] of various branches of psychology.

[00:11:02] I mean, you've had this past dating adventure, hundred and three year adventure.

[00:11:09] And what was Milton Erickson like?

[00:11:11] Like he created hypnotherapy and he convinced himself into not believing he could be crippled

[00:11:20] from polio.

[00:11:22] I just wanted to ask you specifically like, what was that like meeting him and seeing

[00:11:26] him go through this experience?

[00:11:28] He was, he was a, he, a funny guy.

[00:11:33] I mean, he was colorblind.

[00:11:35] His wife had all of its clothes on the color because he was colorblind and he would get

[00:11:42] the weird colors off.

[00:11:44] Anyway, he was a very opinionated and actually amazingly, well his opinion used to, they'd

[00:12:02] stop us in the middle of what we were saying and think, no, what was that?

[00:12:08] He said, you know, it was that kind of a guy.

[00:12:12] He didn't just say empty things.

[00:12:15] He said things that stopped us where we were thinking and made us think again.

[00:12:22] So when we had, when my husband bill met him at a meeting, a medical meeting and brought

[00:12:31] it and they came home and we started these evenings on Tuesday nights of having, there

[00:12:37] were about five.

[00:12:39] I was the only woman but there were about five of us who would come to get together

[00:12:44] on a Tuesday night just to talk about stuff that Milton was talking about.

[00:12:50] But at that point, I was pregnant and by the time I was eight months pregnant, they were

[00:12:57] staying until two o'clock in the morning and on this and I finally kicked them out because

[00:13:03] I had to get my rest but it was a good thing because when they left, they had to create

[00:13:10] something else and they created the American hypnosis associate.

[00:13:17] Anyway, it's that kind of amazing aspect to life itself if you have to go through certain

[00:13:28] things and you actually able to step and take a step forward, it may seem like the wrong

[00:13:35] thing to do but if it's for the right reason, just do it.

[00:13:41] Like what's an example?

[00:13:43] Yeah, that kicking them out to start the American hypnosis society was the right thing

[00:13:52] to do.

[00:13:53] I didn't know it was the right thing to do.

[00:13:56] I just knew I had to take care of this baby and myself and so they better take care

[00:14:02] of themselves and they did.

[00:14:06] And how do you think he did?

[00:14:09] How does the mind work?

[00:14:10] How did he basically get himself going again, having polio seems to have permanent physical

[00:14:17] effects and yet through the mind, he was able to recover some abilities they had lost

[00:14:22] through polio?

[00:14:24] Well he found his juice.

[00:14:30] He found the words that he could say that would allow other people to pay attention to

[00:14:36] the things he was thinking and that's what happened with us as a small group.

[00:14:43] We began to listen to the things that Milton Erickson was saying and thinking, you know

[00:14:49] he's right and how do we put that into context with our lives?

[00:14:55] And so from that step on, it took them steps the way life does.

[00:15:17] You know, sometimes I would like to believe these things and kind of use the enormous

[00:15:25] power of the mind to help my life and to move it forward.

[00:15:30] But there's so much baggage in there at least telling me that it's just not going to work

[00:15:36] that I don't have that kind of power over reality.

[00:15:40] To you know people always say you could view the world from your perspective only and it's

[00:15:45] only your perspective that you see the outside world.

[00:15:48] But there is, I also sort of feel like there's this reality too.

[00:15:52] We all kind of share this reality in world and sometimes things are bad and sometimes

[00:15:57] things are good but I can't have any control over that.

[00:16:00] Well, let me tell you a story, okay?

[00:16:04] My life goes on a story about another James.

[00:16:09] I had a friend named James McCready and he was, he was a family friend.

[00:16:15] We all love James and then he moved into dementia so we had to put him into a facility

[00:16:24] where he'd be taken care of and so he had his room and it was a nice room and all of

[00:16:30] that.

[00:16:31] I went to visit him one day and took him a little plant, a little green plant in a little

[00:16:37] pot and when I took it to him, I said, now James this is your plant but it needs to be

[00:16:45] loved and it needs to be taken care of.

[00:16:49] Now he's looking all around the world but he didn't respond so that I thought he was

[00:16:57] even understanding what I was saying but I was saying it anyway and I said it's going

[00:17:02] to need water and it's going to need sunshine but it's your plant to love and take care

[00:17:07] of.

[00:17:08] And I talked to him about a little bit about this and I put the plant on his windowsill

[00:17:13] and I left and a week later I came back and he met me at the door because he knew that

[00:17:21] was coming up and he met me at the door and he said, magic, magic, magic and I said what

[00:17:30] and he said, come magic and we went into his room and he says box and he took me over

[00:17:40] to the air conditioning box on the wall and he says look, push this button everything

[00:17:51] is cool and nice and plant loves it but he says, push this button or everything hot

[00:18:04] awful.

[00:18:05] Plant doesn't know how to do it.

[00:18:10] That's what he told me and I realized that he in his state of whatever you want to

[00:18:21] call it, being alive had taken the message and was put into action and created a relationship

[00:18:36] a loving relationship with the plant in a way that was giving him juice.

[00:18:44] Is that amazing kind of ability that we each have to reach to some other living thing?

[00:18:57] Now that little plant wasn't anything to speak of.

[00:19:01] I mean, I just took a little grim plant to him and he took that and was able to create

[00:19:10] a story for himself that allowed him to get some juice back in his life because he connected

[00:19:21] with another living thing.

[00:19:23] So who are we to say what is the process of reaching to other people and reaching

[00:19:32] to other aspects of our lives around the world because all of the living stuff in this

[00:19:40] world is here and it's life and it's love that keep it going.

[00:19:49] And when for the end of the book, when you talk about the sixth secret which is how spending

[00:19:54] your energy, I'm recalling the name of the juice.

[00:19:59] What is your energy wildly?

[00:20:03] What does that actually mean in the word wildly there?

[00:20:06] Well like was me taking a plant through that.

[00:20:08] I mean what sense does that make?

[00:20:12] When I took my plant to that little plant to James, it made no sense at all.

[00:20:20] How is this man who knows nothing from anything going to it?

[00:20:27] It was a juicy stupid thing to do but look what it did.

[00:20:32] Yeah and why did you get the inclination to do it?

[00:20:37] Because I had the juice to do it and I did it.

[00:20:40] In other words, I saw it on a button and I thought, yeah James might like that.

[00:20:46] It was just passing thought and so I did it.

[00:20:50] It was that kind of saying that I mean wildly what kind of a wild plot is that?

[00:20:58] You take a little green plant to James.

[00:21:03] But doesn't just end up so because the plant was a living thing, James was a living thing.

[00:21:15] The refrigeration was energy that was a living process.

[00:21:24] In other words, he connected his living process with the living process of the plant enough

[00:21:33] to love the plant enough to create this story.

[00:21:37] That's what stories are all about.

[00:21:40] Playing each other and allowing each other to understand what life is about.

[00:21:47] What strikes me too is that, okay you could visit your friend Jim because on the one hand

[00:21:53] maybe there's a sense of obligation.

[00:21:56] Oh he's in this facility and you want to stop by, check it on him and see.

[00:22:02] But you were infused more into this visit.

[00:22:06] You kind of like you said you kind of almost created a story out of it.

[00:22:10] Like you did this ridiculous thing but that's what stands out and creates a story that

[00:22:16] we could tell today many years later.

[00:22:19] Right, right.

[00:22:20] And if you couldn't put some life into actions that you're taking and doing then you're

[00:22:28] spending your juice wildly.

[00:22:30] Who cares?

[00:22:34] When you saw the whole idea into the air, who cares that you took a little plant to James?

[00:22:43] Nobody cared.

[00:22:44] Nobody else cared.

[00:22:46] James and I are the only two that did.

[00:22:50] And so what?

[00:22:51] Well, I cared and he cared so we connected and the plant was there.

[00:22:58] A living process is that ability to accept life at its own terms.

[00:23:08] Now having dementia is not a pretty thing.

[00:23:14] So this wonderful man had shifted into dementia but he was still the same man who I knew and

[00:23:26] who as a family we cared about.

[00:23:31] He used to spend a lot of time with our families, our kids and so on.

[00:23:36] But then he wasn't able to.

[00:23:39] He had shifted into this phase of his life and he was still alive.

[00:23:48] And as long as there was life there I cared about him.

[00:23:53] And how old was he when he suffered from dementia or when he started suffering from it?

[00:23:58] Oh, probably in the 60s.

[00:24:03] When you were younger what did you think was old?

[00:24:08] Twenty.

[00:24:10] I remember saying to my cousin who had a brother who was 20 years old and I was 10 and

[00:24:18] I said to her, what does it feel to have a brother that's 20 years old?

[00:24:24] I remember that because 20.

[00:24:27] Oh my goodness, I'm 10.

[00:24:30] How can he be 20?

[00:24:32] Yeah, I was thinking this when I was reading your story how you went to Afghanistan when

[00:24:37] I think you were 86 years old.

[00:24:40] And so that's almost 20 years ago now.

[00:24:43] At 86 is also old.

[00:24:48] Oh yeah.

[00:24:50] And yet you had confidence to kind of take these adventures.

[00:24:54] It seems like you were always open to adventure.

[00:24:58] You said yes to adventure a lot.

[00:25:00] Well my parents did, they let me Indian the middle of World War I to take their message

[00:25:10] of love to Indian people in the juggles.

[00:25:14] Okay, you started and I was my mother went into labor with me at the Taj Mahal.

[00:25:20] You start your journey with parents like that.

[00:25:25] It's not an empty journey.

[00:25:28] Nobody's life is an empty journey.

[00:25:30] But what if you don't start with parents like that?

[00:25:33] Like that sounds amazing.

[00:25:35] Well, type what you got.

[00:25:38] What do you have?

[00:25:40] You know you have maybe it's an empty plan and you know something that's like that empty

[00:25:48] plan who cares.

[00:25:50] It's something that's alive.

[00:25:53] Maybe it's a dog that you have in your life that's alive.

[00:25:59] Maybe it's a tree, maybe you have a tree that's a friend.

[00:26:04] Maybe you have a friend that you don't like very much but he's your friend and you

[00:26:09] you play with him or you know whatever is going on in your life.

[00:26:17] It's that what that life creates life and love creates life and love and life go together

[00:26:27] like a pregnancy.

[00:26:29] A pregnancy is a devastation of the life force within the mother and the babies that are

[00:26:37] one for nine months or a year and then they become two.

[00:26:44] You know the love of the mother creates life of the baby, the life of the baby takes

[00:26:53] it's first breath.

[00:26:56] When the life of the baby takes its first breath that baby becomes a different soul,

[00:27:06] a different person but until at that time it's one with the mother.

[00:27:13] It's that kind of an amazing universe that we live in.

[00:27:20] Do you think it's true to saying that you're only as happy as your saddest child?

[00:27:28] As what?

[00:27:30] You're only, you could only be as happy as your saddest child.

[00:27:36] Well, whatever you want to say that.

[00:27:41] You know I think we each have to find our own way of saying that kind of thing that allows

[00:27:49] us to accept what the status that we're in, you know whatever it is then let's accept

[00:27:57] it the way it is and see where we're going with that.

[00:28:02] See what's building, what's around us.

[00:28:04] What is there out there I can love?

[00:28:07] Okay, you know or in here that I can love.

[00:28:11] Or what happened yesterday that kind of a thing.

[00:28:19] Do you think as like at what point through the past century did you add word, did you

[00:28:27] ever think oh I need to slow down now it's too much.

[00:28:31] I need to just slow down.

[00:28:34] I never had a chance.

[00:28:37] I mean, I never saw it about slowing down.

[00:28:41] It was something because there was always something interesting popping up.

[00:28:46] Yeah, like going to Afghanistan in your 80s for instance.

[00:28:50] I have this brother who was Carl Taylor who started future generations which is still go by

[00:28:58] his son is carrying on the work of future generations around the world which has created

[00:29:06] communities around the world who are doing the kind of thing that we didn't have

[00:29:12] got us that with the women.

[00:29:15] But you see my parents started that they lived their life wildly and took a chance during

[00:29:26] World War II.

[00:29:28] There were you boats and water when they went to India.

[00:29:35] But they went because they had a vision, they had a thought.

[00:29:40] They had something that was offered to them as the possibility for their life and it

[00:29:48] excited them.

[00:29:49] It gave them juice and they went to India.

[00:29:53] All right.

[00:29:55] My mother went into labor with me at the Taj Mahal.

[00:29:58] She almost died.

[00:29:59] I almost died.

[00:30:01] I had a hepatitis.

[00:30:04] A malaria hepatitis when I was two.

[00:30:08] I almost died.

[00:30:09] I didn't die.

[00:30:10] I lived through that and so on and so on and so on.

[00:30:15] It's that amazing process that love and life create and keep love going and life going.

[00:30:30] It's how you and I connected.

[00:30:34] I'm talking to you.

[00:30:35] Your name is James.

[00:30:36] I'm connected with my friend James who the story of James and the little plan is now

[00:30:44] a story that can be, you know, I mean this is way in love and life goes.

[00:30:50] Yeah.

[00:30:51] And you know, you mentioned earlier people trying to find their true humanity.

[00:30:59] Do you think it's different now than it was let's say 30, 40, 60 years ago that people

[00:31:05] get lost in the roles they play in society so that it's harder for them to find their

[00:31:10] true humanity?

[00:31:11] Do you think it's different now than it used to be?

[00:31:14] I think it's different because life is different and life changes but that doesn't make

[00:31:20] it.

[00:31:21] It's any harder or any easier.

[00:31:23] It is what it is.

[00:31:25] And as hard as it's going to get and as long as we take the next steps as hard as they

[00:31:34] are to move to the next step which makes it as hard as they are, which takes the next

[00:31:40] step a little easier.

[00:31:42] Then you, you know, I mean it's being willing to step forward and take in the faith that

[00:31:49] life and love in your life and our life and my life, life and love are the two activated

[00:32:00] factors that keep me moving and keep us moving, keep the world moving, keep little plants

[00:32:08] moving.

[00:32:10] And so let's say someone is asking you like, well, I'm so busy all day.

[00:32:19] I'm doing things this, that, the other thing and I want to find my true humanity.

[00:32:27] Like what's the advice you give?

[00:32:29] Start looking for it.

[00:32:32] If you're not looking for it, you're not going to see it.

[00:32:36] If you're looking for it, you'll find it.

[00:32:39] And no one else can tell you.

[00:32:41] I mean, you're in charge of your life.

[00:32:45] See, I have this idea.

[00:32:47] This isn't a theology.

[00:32:49] This is an idea.

[00:32:50] I have the idea as a trend when God, whatever God is to each one of us, when God created

[00:32:57] the earth and the universe.

[00:33:01] And he looked at it and he she and said, oh, this is gorgeous.

[00:33:06] This is just perfect.

[00:33:08] Everything's right here.

[00:33:10] So now I'm going to create the human being.

[00:33:15] And in creating the human being, he said to the human, now everything is perfect.

[00:33:25] Everything in the universe is perfect.

[00:33:27] And the right place, doing the right thing is perfect.

[00:33:32] I now create you as the only being on this earth which has re-choice and free will.

[00:33:45] So I now give you dominion over the earth.

[00:33:51] And we in our arrogance thought he said, domination.

[00:33:56] And so we said, oh boy, oh boy, we got it.

[00:34:00] And we've been going at it.

[00:34:02] And we've been really not nice to mother earth.

[00:34:06] And it's about time I think that we reclaimed our position as being in not endomments of the

[00:34:19] earth, but in dominion that we have the opportunity to help mother earth.

[00:34:30] And I think that's what we're doing when we start reaching for our true humanity.

[00:34:38] Because I think our true humanity is like James reaching for that plant, that ability

[00:34:45] to see in the humblest of things in the most difficult of certain stances, some say that

[00:34:55] gives us life.

[00:35:12] You have this discussion in the book.

[00:35:14] It's a discussion that you have with Bill about, you know, you were saying everything's

[00:35:19] wonderful.

[00:35:20] And he basically said, come on, everything's not wonderful.

[00:35:23] Why are you always saying that?

[00:35:25] And there's this concept of, as you put a toxic positivity that maybe being too positive

[00:35:33] puts blinders on.

[00:35:35] You have a response to that.

[00:35:38] Yeah.

[00:35:39] The polyamous idea.

[00:35:41] Yeah.

[00:35:42] Well, I still like that better than not.

[00:35:46] Yeah, I guess because there's no benefit to pessimism.

[00:35:52] But let's say someone hypothetically, let's say someone's going broke and they're scared.

[00:35:57] They don't know how to deal with their fear or let's say their health is going.

[00:36:01] They're just afraid or let's say a relationship is falling apart and they're scared it will

[00:36:07] fall apart.

[00:36:08] Sometimes it's hard to be optimistic in reality.

[00:36:14] Is there any one of us who hasn't been in that place?

[00:36:18] Have any one of not had a spot in our lives when we've thought nothing is worth it or

[00:36:28] what in the world am I doing here?

[00:36:30] I mean, this kind of thoughts come to us and we get into positions where it is, we're

[00:36:38] stuck.

[00:36:40] All of us have had that kind of, I don't think anybody has had an easy life.

[00:36:47] There are always times which some of us, which all of us have, because we're human beings

[00:36:56] and we're living this life and we're choosing to look for what we're looking for.

[00:37:03] And if it's pain and suffering and we're stuck with pain and suffering, we have a choice

[00:37:15] whether it's going to be like I found out when I had to stop my car and stop my screaming

[00:37:23] and look at it and say, why am I going to spend the rest of my life like this?

[00:37:29] I mean, it was a nasty scene.

[00:37:31] So when we catch ourselves at that point and look at ourselves, we have a choice to

[00:37:38] make.

[00:37:39] And it's our choice but we have to be able to look for something else because if we're

[00:37:48] not looking forward, we'll never see it.

[00:37:52] I guess that's true.

[00:37:53] I guess sometimes you can be so swept up in your own issues, it's hard to go looking

[00:38:00] for something else.

[00:38:01] Like sometimes I don't even really know what that means.

[00:38:04] Of course, I could look for something else but I've got to deal with my own, I've got

[00:38:07] to deal with this issue first.

[00:38:09] Yeah.

[00:38:10] Well, you know, sometimes if you just begin to ask the questions, the answers will come.

[00:38:20] But if you're not asking that question, if you're just thinking, well, this is where life

[00:38:24] is and I'm stuck here and I'm going to continue like this.

[00:38:28] It's a life sucks or water.

[00:38:30] You go on and on and you continue in suffering.

[00:38:34] It was like having a bag over your shoulder and you keep looking back at that bag of stuff

[00:38:40] that you carried and it's a nasty thing.

[00:38:45] And finally, you get to the point where you can't turn your neck back again because

[00:38:50] you've got a stiff neck.

[00:38:52] It's been looking that way all the time.

[00:38:54] You know, if you begin to turn your neck back, it's like built in Ericsson, you know?

[00:39:03] He began after his polio and all the other stuff that went wrong in his life.

[00:39:09] He began turning his neck back and he thought there are other ways of looking at things.

[00:39:15] There are other things I don't have to keep looking at that trash or whatever.

[00:39:23] And it was so powerful for him that it really changed.

[00:39:26] Oh, life.

[00:39:27] Absolutely.

[00:39:29] I wonder how though you generate that power that force of will?

[00:39:33] It did it for me.

[00:39:35] It's my choice.

[00:39:36] It's my choosing.

[00:39:38] I had to see you stay in my car screaming at the university about how life was so awful.

[00:39:48] Or turn around and try just find the stuff that I could be glad about.

[00:39:57] So then you went home that day and you go into your house and like you said, it was empty

[00:40:04] and still Bill wasn't there.

[00:40:09] Like still there's the reality that your life had changed.

[00:40:12] Yeah.

[00:40:13] And it's still, it's knocking on your door.

[00:40:15] That bag is still there.

[00:40:18] It's still there.

[00:40:20] But you, I'm just trying to understand what you went through that moment.

[00:40:24] Well, the only person there was a dog.

[00:40:27] So I talked to the dog and we had our conversation and I said, well, I've got to get

[00:40:34] a license plate different from this.

[00:40:38] So I don't remember what my license plate said, but I took it off and then I wrote the

[00:40:44] application for a new license.

[00:40:47] And I went and I got a new license plate that said be glad.

[00:40:51] But I started the process of getting a new license.

[00:41:00] And so you took action basically?

[00:41:03] Oh, yeah.

[00:41:04] But you can't, it's home.

[00:41:05] What I'm wondering is it's probably hard to think your way out of bad thoughts, but maybe

[00:41:11] taking action kind of cemented the newer thoughts.

[00:41:15] Well that's what is the trick to it.

[00:41:18] That's key because life and love have to move.

[00:41:24] If they're stuck, they can't move.

[00:41:28] You know, it's that process of life activated love, love activated life.

[00:41:36] I mean because life is like a seed in the pyramid.

[00:41:43] It's there.

[00:41:44] The shell's around it.

[00:41:45] It can't do anything until love in the form of water and air enters and softens the

[00:41:54] shell so that the shell can pop open and life can move.

[00:41:59] It's like a woman being pregnant.

[00:42:05] The process of having a birth, a healthy birth or a viable birth is allowing that baby in

[00:42:18] its own time to come and take its own first breath.

[00:42:24] And that first breath then allows it to become itself, you name it.

[00:42:32] That's the point of naming the baby.

[00:42:37] So do you think like every moment, every day, you're essentially, as you say, combining

[00:42:44] life and love and giving birth in a sense to the new day, like you think.

[00:42:51] Absolutely.

[00:42:52] Absolutely.

[00:42:54] Every time, you know, every thought that you think and I think is giving us a chance

[00:43:01] to express some thoughts that are going on in our heads that we can share with each

[00:43:06] other.

[00:43:08] And with ourselves, you know, if you don't ask a question and I don't think about it

[00:43:15] it never gets answered.

[00:43:18] And so I wonder like sometimes this is going to sound ridiculous, but sometimes particularly

[00:43:25] lately, I feel like I'm getting old.

[00:43:28] So you are and if 20 is old, you're old.

[00:43:34] Well, I'm in my 50s.

[00:43:36] So you're young.

[00:43:39] I know, I know it sounds ridiculous.

[00:43:41] You know, me saying this to you when I think, oh, it's supposed to mean my memory is worse

[00:43:46] or maybe this means I don't have as much energy because things do change physically and

[00:43:51] mentally.

[00:43:52] Oh yeah, but what are you looking for?

[00:43:56] I guess I want to be mentally as sharp as I was when I was younger, when I was 20.

[00:44:02] All right.

[00:44:03] Look for it.

[00:44:04] And you're, why are you asking these questions?

[00:44:08] That's a good question.

[00:44:10] I guess because I'm hoping you know the answer or maybe I'm hoping you'll convince me not

[00:44:17] to be thinking about this.

[00:44:19] Let it's pointless to think about this.

[00:44:21] Well, do you think it's pointless?

[00:44:27] I don't know.

[00:44:28] All right.

[00:44:29] You did it.

[00:44:31] You don't know.

[00:44:34] So you got to find out.

[00:44:36] Yeah, and I guess I don't know how to find that out.

[00:44:40] You do?

[00:44:41] I don't know where to look.

[00:44:42] You're looking.

[00:44:44] Yeah, that's true.

[00:44:45] I'm looking.

[00:44:46] Yeah.

[00:44:47] See now if you hadn't asked those questions of yourself, where were the questions to

[00:44:56] be?

[00:44:57] And what were they?

[00:45:01] Yeah.

[00:45:02] It doesn't belong, but you asked those questions and so, so what?

[00:45:13] You know, you'll find the answers.

[00:45:16] That's what.

[00:45:17] Right.

[00:45:18] I'll find some answer.

[00:45:20] Absolutely.

[00:45:21] And so it reminds me of one time I had this friend who, and I've had a couple of friends

[00:45:27] in this exact same situation.

[00:45:28] They start a company, they work really, really hard.

[00:45:32] They're stressed and anxious and scared.

[00:45:37] And finally, they get to the other side.

[00:45:40] They sell the company.

[00:45:41] They feel they've met all of their goals.

[00:45:43] And so the stress like sheds off them and then a week later, and this has happened to

[00:45:48] several friends, not just one.

[00:45:49] They have a heart attack.

[00:45:51] Well, like it's almost as if they're not moving forward anymore.

[00:45:56] Even though the way they were moving forward previously was in this negative way, like stressful

[00:46:00] and anxious and fearful.

[00:46:03] Once they stopped moving, they had a problem.

[00:46:08] Even though they were moving in this negative way, maybe it would have been better if

[00:46:11] they hadn't been so stressed.

[00:46:12] It was as if they were postponing this heart attack just by moving and pushing.

[00:46:19] Or creating it.

[00:46:21] Yeah, maybe the stress was creating it?

[00:46:24] Absolutely.

[00:46:26] You know, if they had been living that and thinking, oh, maybe this is too hard or maybe

[00:46:36] I need to change.

[00:46:40] If they were questioning what it was that they were doing, they made drop some of the

[00:46:46] stuff that they were doing, that was not that important because when they died, they had

[00:46:52] to drop it.

[00:46:54] Yeah.

[00:46:56] I guess what you're saying is also no change is too little.

[00:47:00] So for instance, you couldn't change the circumstances about Bill or if you have a sibling

[00:47:08] die or your daughter who has to wait.

[00:47:11] You couldn't change the circumstances but you could do some change.

[00:47:16] Yeah.

[00:47:19] People always say the worst thing ever is to have a child pass away because it doesn't

[00:47:26] seem like the natural order of things.

[00:47:29] But you've experienced so much and you've seen so much that you've unfortunately gone

[00:47:35] through this experience.

[00:47:37] And at that time, it was the worst thing that could have happened to me.

[00:47:44] And with that, how did you make the decision for yourself even that was going to move forward

[00:47:51] and what was the motion you took?

[00:47:53] Well, I had other things to do.

[00:47:56] I had other children to love.

[00:47:58] She had a son.

[00:48:00] I had a son that I could love.

[00:48:04] If I had identified the things that I still had to live for, I would have...

[00:48:17] I guess I consciously didn't but I knew that I could not let myself die because there

[00:48:26] were too many things that I loved that I had to live for.

[00:48:33] So it was not...

[00:48:36] She was such an important part of my life at that time.

[00:48:43] I mean, Emily was just...

[00:48:46] She was the kind of person when she walked in the door everybody knew who she was with

[00:48:52] that kind of a force.

[00:48:55] And so to let her go was a really, really painful hard thing to do.

[00:49:04] But you know, I had other things to do too and I had other children to love.

[00:49:10] And I had other ways to create and carry on the essence of who and what she was because

[00:49:21] I'll never, ever forget who she was and how she affected me in my life and the stories

[00:49:31] I have to tell about her and all this.

[00:49:34] It's all still part of my memory lane of the things that I choose to remember and keep

[00:49:43] her alive because she's still alive in my life.

[00:49:48] She's right up there, pictures right up there but by...

[00:49:52] Above this computer.

[00:49:55] And do you ever...

[00:49:58] Do you ever...

[00:49:59] You've had so many of these experiences, so many different periods in your life?

[00:50:05] Do you ever lose some of the memories?

[00:50:07] Like do you ever do things slip away?

[00:50:10] All the time.

[00:50:11] I can't begin.

[00:50:13] Sure.

[00:50:14] Well no, no, no, no, I'm not going to say that.

[00:50:17] I...

[00:50:18] There are so many things that I can't pull out and look at right now because I've got

[00:50:27] other things that I'm working on.

[00:50:30] And so I have to deal with what's there, the little plants that's there.

[00:50:35] I have to take care of.

[00:50:37] So you're saying sometimes it's okay that some memory...

[00:50:43] Like what matters the most is what you're dealing with right now.

[00:50:47] Right, right.

[00:50:49] Like take Milton Erson, you know, he couldn't continue to be mulled in the fact that he

[00:51:02] couldn't do the thing that he could do before.

[00:51:05] He had to find something that he could do that would take his mind to a place where he

[00:51:14] could work with something that stretches his mind.

[00:51:19] It was that life and love need to be pulled, need to be worked towards, need to be activated.

[00:51:30] It's why you're doing what you're doing.

[00:51:33] Yeah, I do...

[00:51:35] I do enjoy this and feel that it helps to spread a good message.

[00:51:42] So I like doing this show for that reason.

[00:51:44] Yeah, well you know, I like to talk about my five elves.

[00:51:50] The first two are life and love.

[00:51:53] They don't exist without the other.

[00:51:56] Third one is laughter.

[00:51:59] Laughter without love is cruel.

[00:52:02] It's painful.

[00:52:05] It's very families apart.

[00:52:06] It causes wars, but laughter with love is happiness and joy.

[00:52:14] It's why you're doing what you're doing.

[00:52:18] The fourth one is drudgery.

[00:52:22] If you're just doing this stuff that you're doing without love, you dragged yourself through

[00:52:31] it.

[00:52:32] What you were talking about earlier, people who die because they do the things that are

[00:52:38] just in essence killing them.

[00:52:42] They drive themselves through it, but they do it because they do it and they die.

[00:52:48] All right, well, if you put love into the picture, you do what you're doing now which is your

[00:52:56] bliss.

[00:52:58] It's what makes you say it, makes you want to say it and be.

[00:53:02] So the drudgery then becomes not drudgery.

[00:53:07] It becomes what you actually, the juice that keeps you going.

[00:53:12] And the fifth one is listening.

[00:53:16] Listening without love is empty sound.

[00:53:19] You know, it's a clangong.

[00:53:21] It's an empty symbol.

[00:53:25] It's that sound that just doesn't mean anything.

[00:53:30] But listening with love is understanding.

[00:53:35] So if we can put love into the actions that we take each day and activate that aspect

[00:53:46] of ourselves with love, it transforms it.

[00:53:52] You know, it reminds me of like Victor Frankl's book, Man Search for Meaning, where he said

[00:53:59] Auschwitz.

[00:54:00] So you would think, well, how can he be positive at all there?

[00:54:03] Like that's the most on a scale of zero to ten.

[00:54:07] It's like the negative one in terms of the worst.

[00:54:11] And yet he would find, you know, meaning in being there and that's what kept him going.

[00:54:19] Right.

[00:54:21] You know, that's it.

[00:54:23] It's a basic truth that life and love activate each other.

[00:54:30] And it's an ongoing process.

[00:54:33] And we all have access to it.

[00:54:36] We just have to choose.

[00:54:38] Do you think you knew this all along in part because it sounds like this is how your

[00:54:42] parents lived also?

[00:54:44] Or do you think this is something you kind of learned through time?

[00:54:47] No, I think I knew it all along but it had to grow in me.

[00:54:53] You know, it wasn't something that I knew it and it was fullness anymore than I know

[00:55:01] everything is fullness right now.

[00:55:04] It's a growing process.

[00:55:05] I love what you're what I'm doing now.

[00:55:08] Okay?

[00:55:09] I love what that I'm able to work with you and talk to you.

[00:55:14] You know, this is really nice.

[00:55:17] And so as long as I'm doing the things that make me understand the reality of what

[00:55:27] I'm listening to, you know, and put things into context with my five Ls.

[00:55:39] You know, that works really nice.

[00:55:43] Yeah, and I like the idea of thinking about laughter in the context of love because you're

[00:55:48] right.

[00:55:49] It makes a difference.

[00:55:50] There's love or not there.

[00:55:53] Yeah.

[00:55:54] Yeah.

[00:55:55] And let me ask you, why do you mention it in the acknowledgments Edgar Casey?

[00:56:01] How did he affect your life?

[00:56:05] We were when we came to Phoenix, we had left Wellsville, is town where we'd been practicing.

[00:56:12] It almost killed me.

[00:56:13] I had worked so hard, been so sick and all of that but it's we lived for nine years

[00:56:20] and we came here and we found Edgar Casey.

[00:56:24] We found the philosophy that allowed us to have something else to look for in the way

[00:56:36] we were working our lives and it looked something else to reach for.

[00:56:41] It's what I'm trying to say.

[00:56:43] And as we began to understand what Casey was talking about, you know, pay attention to

[00:56:48] your dreams.

[00:56:49] Pay attention to what you think you think.

[00:56:52] Pay attention to who you really are and other statements that made us realize that there

[00:57:02] is more to life than what we had been looking for.

[00:57:08] And we began searching.

[00:57:10] And when you begin searching, let me tell you, they start to show up?

[00:57:16] Yeah.

[00:57:17] I believe that.

[00:57:19] I think sometimes I get bogged down in the minutiae of life.

[00:57:26] Like okay, you have to go on these trips, you have to pay these taxes, you have to do this,

[00:57:30] you have to do that.

[00:57:32] It's easy to get off the spiritual quest.

[00:57:37] But it's important.

[00:57:38] But I do think the best moments of my life were when I was on those quests.

[00:57:44] Yeah.

[00:57:46] Well, and when you were paying attention to your dreams and to the things that were showing

[00:57:52] up in life, your life.

[00:57:54] But when you know what it is, also, it's recognizing what's showing up in your life.

[00:58:01] It's not just the stuff that shows up, but recognizing what really shows up in your life.

[00:58:09] You know, what you turned a corner and there it was.

[00:58:15] You know, we moved to Phoenix and there it was.

[00:58:19] Rachel Carson had just written her book about a silent spring talking about diet.

[00:58:26] And we had lived it all this time.

[00:58:31] Just taking care of life the way it was, not paying attention to the nuances of the diet

[00:58:39] that we were feeding ourselves and the kids.

[00:58:44] Yeah.

[00:58:45] Did you switch your diet?

[00:58:48] Oh, yeah.

[00:58:49] My daughter wrote a book called Born to Heal and then she talks about the time that I made

[00:58:59] a casserole out of brains for the kids because I was pregnant with a lean and my great racial

[00:59:09] Carson was talking about making a huge, the pregnant women should eat brains.

[00:59:17] You know, and I thought, oh, well, you're okay.

[00:59:21] Well, I guess there's that saying you are what you eat.

[00:59:25] Oh, absolutely.

[00:59:27] But we hadn't thought about that.

[00:59:29] See, that was a new thought to us.

[00:59:32] We came to Phoenix.

[00:59:33] And with that came a whole bunch of new thoughts that Casey was talking about paying attention

[00:59:38] to your dreams, paying attention to who is in your life, paying attention to life.

[01:00:01] I guess maybe one thing one gift age brings is that you have enough experience to be

[01:00:08] able to recognize, to be able to pay attention.

[01:00:12] Right.

[01:00:13] I was talking to someone earlier today who had to fire an employee and he realized this,

[01:00:23] he was questioning his decision making because just a few weeks earlier, he had hired this

[01:00:27] employee.

[01:00:28] But then it turned out this employee was very rude to the other employees and didn't get

[01:00:31] along with people.

[01:00:33] And so he was trying to figure out what in his decision-making process was wrong.

[01:00:37] But he's much younger than me.

[01:00:39] And I said, look, it doesn't matter because now you know and you won't do it again.

[01:00:46] He just hadn't had the experience of having hired someone like that before.

[01:00:50] And so I think one gift that getting a little older gives one is that you recognize many

[01:00:58] more things.

[01:01:00] You see many more things in the daily minutiae.

[01:01:04] You've asked questions that have been answered.

[01:01:08] Yeah.

[01:01:12] And so now, well look now what's your next big adventure?

[01:01:17] Well, I'll have another blog to cast you tomorrow.

[01:01:24] And you know, this is pretty interesting.

[01:01:29] I mean, this is kind of a dumb question.

[01:01:33] But what technology in the past 100 years has impressed you the most?

[01:01:40] Life.

[01:01:41] Well, that's a technology that doesn't change.

[01:01:46] Other technologies change.

[01:01:49] Life?

[01:01:50] I guess it's true.

[01:01:54] Life was love.

[01:01:56] You know, if anything that is activated with love, it presses me.

[01:02:09] And what's what I'm looking for?

[01:02:11] That's why it presses me.

[01:02:13] If I'm doing something and the person that is reaching to me with a even a minute

[01:02:26] new show of love with that aspect, if I can feel that reach of, now I'm just making

[01:02:33] this up right now because it's coming to me.

[01:02:37] If I can feel that reach from that person who is looking for something who is reaching

[01:02:46] for that answer, then I know that and I'll jump towards it and I'll go forward because

[01:02:53] it's something that says, yeah, that's right.

[01:02:58] Like the questions that you're asking.

[01:03:01] Well, and I have to say like, I mean, I've thought a lot about a lot of things since we obviously

[01:03:06] we did the interview when you're the hardcover of your book came out.

[01:03:11] And I would say I've had an interesting year with some success and some failures like

[01:03:19] most years ago and I've tried, I've been trying really hard to keep my perspective positive.

[01:03:26] But I feel like I've been in general more negative for some reason and there's no even

[01:03:31] real specific reason.

[01:03:33] Like nothing bad is happening.

[01:03:34] It's just I think I have a little bit more negative self-talk lately and I'm really

[01:03:39] trying to reverse that.

[01:03:42] Well, there you go.

[01:03:45] You know, you're working with it.

[01:03:47] Yeah.

[01:03:48] You recognize it.

[01:03:51] You've identified it and now you can do something about it.

[01:03:55] You can make your choices.

[01:03:57] I guess that's the hard part is really believing that I can make their choices.

[01:04:02] Like I hear what you're saying and I've even said the same thing that you're saying and

[01:04:08] somehow it's just, I feel less powerful to make those choices for some reason.

[01:04:14] But sometimes when you hear yourself say it, you have to stop and think about it.

[01:04:21] Yeah.

[01:04:22] You know, the fact that you actually thought about it, put it into words, put it into the

[01:04:36] your own hearing process that you heard your own words.

[01:04:41] It made you think about it again and here you are talking about it.

[01:04:46] That's a pretty important thing.

[01:04:48] Yeah, I guess that's right because it's like an archeological dig.

[01:04:53] It forces you to go a little bit deeper than you did the day before.

[01:04:58] Or you're introduced to an idea like when we came to Phoenix, we were introduced to Edgar

[01:05:05] Casey and all of a sudden, whoa!

[01:05:09] About this stuff, you know.

[01:05:13] It was so interesting and it has taken us down many, many interesting paths.

[01:05:24] Yeah, I've only heard about him.

[01:05:28] I've never read anything by him.

[01:05:32] The first book we read about him, Casey, was There is a River.

[01:05:37] It's his biography and that in itself is fascinating.

[01:05:42] But that's what captivates us.

[01:05:45] All right, I'm going to read that.

[01:05:47] That's going to be next on my reading list.

[01:05:50] All right.

[01:05:51] Gladys, once again, it's always such a pleasure even meeting someone like you with such

[01:06:00] presence and such life experience and such joy for life.

[01:06:08] And I could see that, you know, writing the Well-lived Life and reading about, you know,

[01:06:15] I'll read the subtitle 100 to your old doctor's, six secrets to health and happiness at every

[01:06:20] age.

[01:06:22] Reading through each chapter and the practice you give, like the exercises you give really

[01:06:29] made me think a lot about my own life.

[01:06:31] Like when you talk about community, for instance, I don't know if I have as much community

[01:06:36] now and maybe that's part of the issue was, I think community is harder to get in some

[01:06:42] ways now.

[01:06:43] Wait, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

[01:06:45] You've got a community.

[01:06:46] I'm part of your community.

[01:06:49] You've created this community.

[01:06:51] That's true.

[01:06:52] That is very true actually.

[01:06:53] All right.

[01:06:54] Okay, now is what you've already done and then build on that or whoever you want to.

[01:07:02] But I mean really think of what you've done.

[01:07:07] It's not empty sound.

[01:07:11] People are listening to what you're saying.

[01:07:14] Yeah, that's true.

[01:07:16] Yeah.

[01:07:17] Food for thought as like you keep me thinking and you have for the past year and

[01:07:24] so glad I reread your book in preparation for this.

[01:07:30] I'm so glad I did because I saw completely different things in it this time also than

[01:07:34] the last time and so on.

[01:07:36] And the paperbacks coming out.

[01:07:38] Yeah, what does the paperback come out?

[01:07:41] What's a date, John?

[01:07:42] April 2.

[01:07:44] April 2.

[01:07:46] Well again, Gladys MacGerry and author of The Well-Live Life and you have a Well-Live

[01:07:52] Life, 103 years old.

[01:07:54] I'm sorry I even thought to say earlier that you might be 104 because I don't want to

[01:07:59] I don't want you to be older or anything and thank you so much for again coming back

[01:08:05] on the show and answering my questions and telling me your stories.

[01:08:11] It's always beautiful to talk to you.

[01:08:13] Thank you, James.

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