The Power of Resilience | Soulaima Gourani's Journey from Adversity to Silicon Valley Success

[00:00:07] Jay, that was an intense story. Yeah, it's crazy like I almost cry during your conversations Yeah, I mean but look she's overcome the obstacles and it's amazing to see how she did it and it's a valuable story And it was an intense story. She went from basically

[00:00:24] Homeless on the street then in foster care to being an incredibly successful person She describes what she went through and how she rose up. What a powerful story Here she is. Soulaima Gourani and also check out her recently funded AI startup Hapiohapioh.com

[00:00:46] Here's the story. This isn't your average business podcast, and he's not your average host This is the James Altucher Show I can't believe it. I'm such a huge fan. I've been for years your fan and

[00:01:12] When I started fundraising for my startup a few years ago, I've never done it before a total amateur It's a long story, but I listen to your podcast Oh good because I'll tell you why because you have been so honest about your ups and downs and

[00:01:28] You have such a humble approach to life and You share so authentically all your considerations and thoughts and doubts and whatnot and It helped me tremendously

[00:01:41] Being more authentic in my journey as a CEO and I don't I do credit you for a lot of the stuff that have happened to me afterwards Oh, well, thank you very much and now welcome

[00:01:52] Were you going through like a hard time? Just personally when you were fundraising like was it because you get a lot of rejection when you're fundraising? Especially at first Yeah, yeah, but I was born on rejections, right?

[00:02:01] I mean all my life all that doors have been slammed in my face, right? I mean thousands of knows all my my entire life has been Covered with nose, right? So I'm pretty strong and being being a rejected. That's not the hard part

[00:02:15] but it was more about keeping my mind sharp and Train myself to be an optimist because just like you I'm not a natural optimist. I'm actually slightly depressed negative I mean I can explain but throughout your entire podcasts

[00:02:34] All the shows I've listened to you have been you have had your ups and downs And you have shared so generously how you stayed Curious and optimistic and all these things and you're eager for learning throughout those processes and

[00:02:51] Seasons if you like, yeah, you know, it's interesting like I feel that I'm an optimist But I have to force myself to be an optimist in the sense that there's nothing to be gained from pessimism

[00:03:04] Because you want to be realistic? Okay, this will work. This won't work and here's the evidence for that And I'll make a decision like you always have to make decisions based on realism

[00:03:12] But you have to be hopeful just to try things and start things and and pursue things You know an experience helps gains the real optimism doesn't help you gain the real realism but nor does pessimism

[00:03:24] experience helps you you know and having good network of people around you helps you gain realism and you know for you I imagine it must be interesting because Long before your CEO days you were when you were a kid you were on the street

[00:03:41] Can you tell me that that story like what happened? Obviously you've you've changed your life circumstances considerably since then Yeah, yeah Well, I mean the short story is that I ran away from my parents when I was just 13 I

[00:03:59] Was I got confirmed in Denmark when I was 13 and you know you you get usually cash, right? from parents and grandparents and stuff and I was so excited about being confirmed because I knew that will give me cash

[00:04:13] But unlike my friends. I wasn't planning to buy myself a bike or you know I was planning to run away from my parents, which was pretty insane and why is that like what was what was going on

[00:04:24] Well, that's a long story too, but I'm half Moroccan. I was born in Morocco I came to Denmark my mom is Danish so I grew up in Denmark

[00:04:33] But I grew up with a very traditional dad right imagine having a Muslim Moroccan dad and growing up in the most liberal free country in the world probably Denmark it gave a lot of Friction and my dad was actually an engineer very well educated

[00:04:50] But he had undiagnosed ADHD he went bankrupt twice We lost everything several times. They had a very passionate marriage So much so that sometimes we had to escape in the nights to go to a women's center for safety from my dad He started drinking abusive, you know

[00:05:11] And I came from an upbringing where you don't know my uncle was a pedophile You know, I mean I can go on and on with all the trauma that I have been through Can I ask what was your mom?

[00:05:22] Even though she had let's say escaped several times to a woman's center often it takes five six ten attempts or more before you she Woman finally leaves an abusive husband. I mean, it's very rare that the first time she's able to

[00:05:36] Leave for good. They usually they go back for many reasons like oh, maybe he's changed maybe Maybe it was my fault. She could blame herself like what was going on that she eventually leave him or did she go back or

[00:05:49] James you're so insightful. No, she never managed to leave him in fact. So he died 16 years ago. He died and so yeah It took him to die for him for her to leave him. So it's true

[00:06:04] it's very hard for a woman to leave an abusive husband because truth is that When you when you are in such a violent abusive relationship marriage What most people don't know is that these women are not stupid right a week, but over time you lose confidence and

[00:06:25] You kind of get addicted to that dramatic Lifestyle as well. And you probably get like a PTSD like you probably are just shattered 100% and I remember I was like my maybe five six seven years old

[00:06:39] I was backing her to leave him. My brother was backing her. We were frightened, you know, it was very traumatic But she never left him. No, and you know today. I'm 48 I look back and at my life with different kind of eyes

[00:06:54] I feel even gratitude right because my upbringing has really prepared me for the life that I live today So I'm no longer Angry upset. I don't feel like a victim, but I am aware that my trauma score score is very high

[00:07:13] Actually so much so that when you look at what I have accomplished now as an adult I think I have 0.2 percent chance of living the life I live today, right? So I've really beaten all odds

[00:07:25] Right. I mean that's what struck me when I first was you know when we first met through through avo and stuff Like so when you're 13 and you left Where did you go? Well, what was the first thing that happened?

[00:07:38] No, no, no, no, I think it's you know, it's so You know, I was in India teaching at Indian School of Business It's like MIT but in India super smart people and I stood up and I shared my story with the students

[00:07:53] That I ran away when I was 13 I lived in the streets and usually people get shocked right and just like you I guess But in India the students were just like yeah, and so move on, you know for them

[00:08:06] It was not a big deal because it was India, you know what I mean, but in any Any other country in Europe this is you know, this is a big deal Well, I mean I I gathered, you know clothing

[00:08:20] I wrote a note to my parents that I had left and they shouldn't be looking for me They called the police of course and and all the newspapers were alerted And I was front page on the newspapers in the den in Denmark because they were searching for me

[00:08:34] And eventually a few months later the police found me I was living, I mean some family members were hiding me friends And then they found me and they they they transported me to an institution Children's home, right? It's a 24 hour open institution where you bring kids in that

[00:08:57] You know cannot be at home for some reason Very tough place James. It's a very tough place Were the police and whoever found you were they sympathetic to your cause and just That there was no place to really take you other than this institution?

[00:09:11] Yeah, they called my parents but my parents didn't want me back So So I went to that institution and I was there with a bunch of really interesting kids I would say And I was just 13. It's really

[00:09:26] And I was sitting there. I remember with a few with a little bit of cash From the welfare office, whatever And I had a pack of cigarettes and I was sitting there literally 13 years old with a pack of cigarettes and a few notes

[00:09:41] You know a hundred bucks or whatever and and I didn't know what to do with my life and That institution actually after a few months They sat me down and they said we cannot have you here. You need to go back to your parents

[00:09:55] You need to go back to a real school because you're too smart For us to have you here. We will destroy your future you and I didn't want to go back But my parents then agreed on taking me back

[00:10:07] But I was only home for a few weeks. It didn't work and then I ran away again Uh, and this was an exciting event like was your They it was just a mistake, you know my it didn't work

[00:10:18] I mean we immediately start fighting again and you know yelling and it was very unpleasant And I should also tell you that a few days after I returned to my parents' higher house I went back to my old school And I came to school

[00:10:33] Really excited to be back to school. I love going to school. This is seventh grade And when I came to school Just before everyone returned to their classes One of my teachers came to me in the schoolyard. Everyone had left in for classes

[00:10:48] And he he he kept me there and he looked at me I'm just 13 James and he looks at me and he said, you know, you're no longer welcome at this school and I said Uh, what?

[00:11:00] And he said all the parents none of the parents want you back in the class And I was like I couldn't believe it because there was one place on earth where I really felt I really wanted to be and that was school

[00:11:16] My it was just my home that didn't work. It was my home was broken Anyway, so I got kicked out of seventh grade and it took And then I I Then I left again my my home and this time

[00:11:32] The social welfare system in danmark put me in foster care Uh, but before I went to foster care, they actually put me in another school It's like a boarding school, but it's it's an institution And all the children there were criminal like

[00:11:47] What I wasn't capable of at that time. I definitely was when I left so it was a very very bad crowd I was there for almost almost a year and um

[00:11:59] Yeah, that was tough and then I was put in foster care and then from foster care to another institution from another institution to yeah So I would say uh, I've had 10 Really interesting years of my youth That has deeply defined me as a person

[00:12:17] I mean in foster care foster care in general has a reputation of Being a very negative experience. I've seen foster parents that have been very good foster parents And you know, I've seen both sides of the story What what was your experience like in foster care?

[00:12:32] Very good. In fact so much so that my children love visiting My foster family still we we've celebrated Christmas with them. They remember My birthday and they reach out to us and when I'm home my foster mom would say now all my children are together

[00:12:48] You know if her children are there too, I definitely feel a very strong relationship with my foster family still Oh, that's great. They went to my wedding and everything. Yeah And then at what point I guess when you're 18

[00:13:01] Do you have to get leave the foster care system or what? What happens like do you go to college then or what did you do? Yeah, I mean I left earlier because they lived uh

[00:13:12] A bit away from the from the main town, you know, so I left the family when I was just 16 16 and a half And I and I started living by myself Uh in a house that was governed by the social system

[00:13:30] I I lived there with let me think six or seven other young people Same age and then we had uh an adult that lived on the on the first floor But we ran the house like any other adult like we had cleaning schedules

[00:13:46] Uh grocery shopping schedules cooking schedules, but we ran the house. We had like Our financials our books we had to pay rent it was so by the age of 16 and a half I was living a completely adult life with all the concerns that you would

[00:14:02] Normally have when you're like 25 maybe, you know And so were you working during the day or or trying to study or yeah? Yeah. Yeah. I try I did study actually. Yeah, I

[00:14:12] um, I I took my I graduated uh, you know the high school and and all that and um But I was working uh because I needed to make money So I was cleaning in the nights or bartending or um

[00:14:29] I took a degree as a personal trainer. I you know, I did all kinds of stuff that could give me an income So I've always worked uh Outside going to school as well When you were like 18 1920, what did you think about yourself?

[00:15:00] What did you think your potential was at that point? Like here you are in life with Essentially nothing but perhaps happy to be an adult and finally free Whatever that word means. Yeah, what did you think of your potential at this point? Like where were you emotionally?

[00:15:16] Well, it's such a good question. I will try not to be emotional when you ask me it You know fast for if I look back at how I felt when I was 18. I was a very serious 18 year old

[00:15:27] You know sometimes when you meet people that are 18 19 they're living their best lives, right? I was a very um serious slightly worried traumatized And I was a little behind with a lot of things remember I was kicked out of school

[00:15:46] For several years. I was trying to survive so school was an issue for me There was a lot, you know, if there was there's a lot I had to catch up with

[00:15:55] Did you look at other kids and or other people your age who are maybe you would see them in the street? Maybe you would see them, you know Moving up some ladder of success. However, that's fine. I was not yeah, I was and were you like thinking oh

[00:16:09] I could be like them. Were you thinking I could never be like them? Uh, it's funny that you say that I always knew that I was going to make it Like I was never in doubt that one day one day James

[00:16:20] It was not like I'm gonna show the rest of the world that they was missed. No, it was not like That it was just that I knew I would make it I just knew that I had to go through these faces or seasons or whatever

[00:16:32] This was my life journey. This this was the chapters that was laid out for me And uh, even though I could be sad or disappointed Or whatever that this was my life Then I I settled like not not settled is not the right word

[00:16:47] But I accepted that this was I surrendered I know you surrendered James to life too and I think we share that I surrendered to the journey that I was on and I um, I accepted every challenge that was thrown at me And I focused mainly on just

[00:17:02] Doing my very best in all of those situations that I was put into And yes, I couldn't get a job. Actually, I applied for any education University degree whatever you can imagine Turned down everywhere. I couldn't even get uh, you know, uh a job

[00:17:21] What you might not think about but my name is Suleyma Quran is not a Danish name. It's very Moroccan. It's very Muslim. It's very Um, so if I send any applications

[00:17:31] No one took me in fact when I was just about 18 and a half after I have sent out several applications I just became a student. I graduated. Uh, I couldn't get a job. I went to the Because I was part of the social welfare system

[00:17:46] Um, there's an office and you can go and you know, they can try and find your job as an adult, you know, whatever And that lady she looked at me and she said I don't think we can find anything suitable for you

[00:17:58] The only job that I have right now that you can begin on on monday is to be painting um It was a building or whatever like an active, you know We can activate you so that you can get some welfare money

[00:18:10] But you have to paint that wall, you know, that's the only job that comes to mind that I can give you And I'm like really? Really And instead of taking the job I I went and I took my passport and I moved to switzerland Wow, so

[00:18:25] That's a big that's a big change I guess though you were comfortable with being in different situations at the very least like more so than many people your age perhaps And so you had the confidence. Do you think that gave you the confidence to

[00:18:37] Oddly pick up and move to another country Yeah, I've done that four times now Well, I you know, I think it's in my dna if something doesn't work despite all I do and all my good intentions instead of staying

[00:18:52] I'm not running away. I that comes to mind, but that's not what happening. I'm like, okay If I have to move myself physically to another Place to make it work. Then that's what I'm gonna do. I would think switzerland would be just as hostile to No

[00:19:07] Muslims and actually any non swiss people because it's a very like close society. They're very different from other european countries switzerland True and very traditional still well, uh in switzerland back then when I was 18 and 19 they were looking for Danish women who would come and be

[00:19:25] Waiter like in restaurants and bars And I I have been you know serving people in restaurants and bars most of my youth because that You know, I switched between being a dishwasher waiter or cleaning lady, right?

[00:19:38] I mean the hospitality industry is very important for people like me because you can not only Uh make yourself a salary, but it's a very welcoming industry, right for immigrants and people who don't do well in school Uh in many ways just like the tech industry

[00:19:54] Which what I work with today those two industries are very welcoming for anyone who would like who can work hard And don't complain Tech and hospitality two very generous industries for immigrants Um, so I moved to uh switzerland and I worked there for six months

[00:20:10] And I'm I I managed to make enough money They tip very well games. They tip very well in switzerland. Well, that's good. I should tell my daughters. They're they're actresses slash writers slash Waiters bartenders. Yeah, so as they should be right

[00:20:27] Oh, oh, that's the journey for many creative. Um, yeah So I I collected a lot of money and then I moved back to danmark And then I had enough money to move to a larger city You know, danmark is very small, but we have a few big cities

[00:20:41] We have odense copenhagen and so forth and I moved to the second biggest City in danmark danmark and that was called odense And uh, I worked there for a few years in different stores and shops and stuff And then at some point I ran out of money

[00:20:55] And uh, I considered starting studying something right and um, but I couldn't get in Really, I didn't have the grades. I didn't have the connections to get in Anywhere, but I managed to find an education That lasted four years and you didn't have to have high grades

[00:21:12] And you could apply and uh, I did And they accepted me and I studied there for four years and uh, I hated it every day I was not good at it. I hated it

[00:21:23] Uh, but the good thing about that program was that it did motivate you to move to a different country every year as part of the program Oh, really? That's an interesting program. I like that. Yeah, it it

[00:21:35] It was critical. It was say countries that you moved to so I moved to uh, switzerland Sorry, uh, luxembourg and norway, uh as the two main countries and then I that took me step further to us afterwards

[00:21:48] So, uh, yeah, it was very interesting. Uh, so I moved to I moved to luxembourg shortly after You know luxembourg is like one of those countries. I've never met anybody from luxembourg Like what happens there? Nothing

[00:22:05] Are there I just imagine there's like a lot of like wealthy people there and that's about it Old wealthy people is miami, but in europe. Well, I think um uh, uh luxembourg is very uh Everything is in order right everything works

[00:22:21] It's a it used to be just like switzerland Financial institutions wealthy people who would live there. Um, I got a an erasmus scholarship Uh, people started noticing me at that point james. That was really where it started Slowly people recognized that in what sense?

[00:22:42] Well, you know moving danes don't move around a lot right and moving countries for a job Is not something you have to do if you're danish right? You can live your life comfortably all your life in danmark and do fine

[00:22:55] Once you start leaving the country and you return and you leave again You start making noise right and I think it was around that time that the danish government A minister of some kind social minister or whatever

[00:23:09] Picked up that he is a woman a young woman that is doing an extraordinary, uh effort To make it in life and she happens to be danish half danish And they interviewed me For a report and they

[00:23:24] That led to another interview another interview another interview and it turns out I became Out of nowhere. I started becoming some kind of a role model. They studied me james. They kind of started studying me Which was a surprise. How old were you at this point? Maybe 19 20 wow

[00:23:41] And I never thought about it that I have a certain way of thinking I never thought about that. It's a miracle that I survived my own life In some sense. I mean, I'm not saying anything Is good about the situation that happened to you as a child

[00:23:53] But you definitely had to learn skills that other 19 year olds are not learning and that's That is interesting because it's very rare To for someone to have to learn those skills and then like you said

[00:24:05] Move on to success like an education and and you know living in these other countries and other situations and to survive that

[00:24:13] There people probably were curious like well, what what are these skills she developed and how did she develop them and what she doing now and so on Yeah, so I became a role model project for the danish government

[00:24:27] um, and I have participated in I don't know thousand talks and podcast and interviews and Reports and I don't know what because they're trying to find out if you can channel

[00:24:39] A few of the things that I've been through and the way I handled it to other young people because I'm not the only one right I'm not the only one that is going through these things or have been through these things

[00:24:50] But I might be one of those who kind of made it to the surface right and someone saw me So in a way, I've been lucky Did you keep in touch with anybody that you knew from the institutions like the other children who were in

[00:25:01] I do not know I do not But my foster parents gave I was there this summer and they gave me a long Rundown on all the people all the young people that I know and have known

[00:25:14] And with whom I also shared my foster family with because they had other they had other foster kids than me And it's very traumatic. None of them none of them have Barely survived their own life Wow, and at what point did you start?

[00:25:29] You know, I imagine here you are on this unusual path and again It's both a curse and a blessing in the sense that to be an entrepreneur You have to basically go on an unusual path

[00:25:44] You have to discover something that no one has discovered before and do it in a unique way Not in every case for an entrepreneur but in most cases You went through all this trauma and again, you probably had your own version of

[00:25:56] PTSD just like your mom from growing up in that situation What were the consequences of that? Like what was negative going on in your life then? You know, I never really thought about I could have post-traumatic stress disorder But uh, and I have never been diagnosed or anything

[00:26:12] But lately because I've been interviewing other leaders that are looking into psychedelics trauma ps You know post-traumatic stress disorders and stuff ADHD and stuff. I'm like, yeah, I'm 100 percent sure that I have A great amount of those deal to deal with

[00:26:28] And I was just never diagnosed, right? So should I or should I just live in unknown Lee about that probably probably That's a hard question because sometimes when you label yourself with an illness Then you take on the illness and maybe maybe you're fine without it so

[00:26:45] Yeah, you know fine without the label and perhaps I shouldn't have had the assumption to to label you but You know you ran away from home for a reason

[00:26:55] And that reason was very important to you and it was in your head and those reasons are still in your head Um, but you're just older now Yeah, and now I'm a parent right so um

[00:27:08] Well, I mean now I almost forget what you asked me about but um What what was still sticking with you that somehow the other kids didn't or young people didn't seem to have I definitely felt that I did not have I could not afford

[00:27:28] I didn't have the privilege To just live life, you know I I don't remember at any point of time where I had like even one day where I was not worried And and this has been a constant in my life

[00:27:45] Even today right as an entrepreneur and and don't get me wrong James. I live the most privileged life You cannot buy for money, you know, it's unbelievable. My life now is Insane like it's a it's a fairy tale. I cannot believe that I'm living the life. I'm living

[00:28:04] But even today At this very moment despite that I'm outperforming statistically 99.9 of all startups at at our stage I'm still every morning. I wake up Heavenly burdened with the responsibility and the worry some of you know And it's just my nature

[00:28:24] Someone told me a few years ago that those who survive are those who are slightly paranoid So it's Andy Grove who was the former CEO and basically a co-founder of intel wrote only the wrote a book only the paranoid survive see And then also

[00:28:42] Because I've been through so much and I was kicked out of school in seventh grade and you know, I We spoke about math, right? And I have not had a math class since fourth grade

[00:28:54] Well, this goes along with the theory of mind on education, which is that most things we learn Like like for instance, nobody ever uses geometry in real life I mean if you that's your job to be like an engineer and you build bridges

[00:29:08] You should use geometry or calculus or whatever. No one uses calculus anywhere or trigonometry I had to take tons of tests on all this stuff and do years of homework And I've never once used it and I think that holds for almost

[00:29:21] Every field in school that most things we don't We should be learning other things and not the things that are currently taught Well, don't even get me started on this, you know, I Part of what what I spend my spare time on is, you know, I

[00:29:40] I co-designed a teacher's price. We hand out one million dollar to the best teacher in the world every year The best school price for the best schools in the world also a member of the jury there I've been leading the global dignity movement

[00:29:57] Globally for 10 years, right? It's all about schools education and kids And I I I do spend To this very day a great amount of my time discussing the future of education

[00:30:10] A few of my books are about what are we supposed to learn? What are we supposed to be in the future? You know my tits talk everything is around the fact that hey, listen I have traveled to more than 40 countries telling my story and

[00:30:24] James you said about something a while ago that I love you for that that you were considering to buy greenland Remember trump won't buy greenland and you came up with this whole thing and it made me think about my trip to greenland As you know, greenland is danish

[00:30:39] Which I did not know initially Until the prime minister of danmark responded trump and said it greenland's not for sale. I'm like, what what the hell is that guy doing there? Oh, it's it's danish

[00:30:50] We we are not we're proud of of greenland, but we kind of messed it up as well So but that's a whole that could be a whole another conversation. Anyway, um greenland is facing a 50 50 percent dropout

[00:31:03] Kids drop out of school. It's a huge problem. Yeah, and alcoholism is a real problem there Suicide's a real problem there suicide alcohol and abuse in homes

[00:31:15] Sexual abuse abuse anyway, so you can imagine that I am the ideal person to ship to greenland and put a put in front of those kids because I survived a similar upbringing And um, I still remember I they took me to this high school

[00:31:32] And I don't know I would like to say there was three four five hundred kids in the school It was in in the capital nuke of greenland and um, I started sharing my story And when I was done usually, you know people applaud you or whatever, right?

[00:31:47] Complete silence and they just started sitting crying And it was the most moving talk i've ever done in my entire life and um because in all silence we were just all Crying how hard life is for so many children

[00:32:07] Sorry, I get emotional, but it was a very emotional moment And I knew and I knew that you know, I have not been through all these things for no reason I am supposed To bring that hope back in some way and that is why

[00:32:19] I cannot help myself from Sharing my story not as a victim not as a victim, but more of you know, yeah, I know I I I was I was

[00:32:32] What have I been 13 and a half when they was returned to my parents for the second time and I ran away again that time I ran to my my mom's sister And she had me living there for a few weeks before I I was put in foster care

[00:32:46] and um I lived with her a few weeks so that I could attend school And I remember one afternoon. I was opening my lunch bag that she had made for me And in that was a little note

[00:32:59] That I should not return back home that afternoon. She didn't want to have me there anymore Oh my gosh Oh james, you know because she had found a cannabis pipe or joint whatever thing in my school bag And yeah, I'm not proud of that but hey, you know

[00:33:17] That that's my story right and um So instead of dealing with it. She just said don't can you imagine being at that age? You've been through all this and you just have in your lunch bag and no don't return home

[00:33:32] After school do whatever you want. Just don't come home And where did she think you were gonna go? Yeah, just like anything. Yeah, I mean James What do you do? so

[00:33:45] But I went to the social welfare system and they called the foster care family and stuff so all good but but the thing is I don't think I've ever shared this before in a show. I don't think so anyway

[00:33:59] That afternoon I took my bike after school, but I didn't know where to go and I was standing on the bridge You know and thinking like I should just jump I didn't and I'm so happy. I didn't Why do you think you didn't

[00:34:18] I don't know I had this feeling of Somehow I thought a few years ahead like I Could this work out do do I have the strength? Can I pull myself up by the hair? And get myself an education and maybe a job and you know And I did

[00:34:57] fast-forwarding like then you achieved all this incredible stuff and and survived and then even Went to a school and went went to all these other countries What then Propelled you even further because then you started being a consultant to really big

[00:35:13] The biggest company. Yeah. Yeah, it's incredible and then of course you became an entrepreneur and and so on Yeah Well, well, well, uh, remember I told you that I studied that awful education that took four years and

[00:35:26] That motivated all the children to move out three four countries during the study Um in my final year, uh, I was offered to go to Norway and And I was offered a six month program at the foreign ministry in Norway

[00:35:45] They offered me a position for six months and that turned around my life and here we go Because I came there and I'm a survivor, right? I'm a social Intelligence street smart Hustler, right? I get things done. I'm extremely

[00:36:03] Good at networking if you may why because that's how I survive That's how I got clean clothing or food or a bed to sleep in or whatever through networking, right? That was my survival skill And so I have a very extraordinary skill

[00:36:19] For relationship building it's really my number one skill, but it is my survival skill, right funny enough and so I started working at the embassy and they you know took me out to conferences and whatnot and you know

[00:36:32] I was exchanging business cards like no one else and I And uh, and they realized she's a talent And I decided I wanted to pursue a career in the foreign ministry I I would I would become the first danish maroccan ambassador ever

[00:36:49] But then during that period of time. I met a ceo in norway He was of course, Norwegian and he had a small company With hundred employees or something and he has been thinking about starting a new product a new software product

[00:37:04] There was nothing yet. There was just one string of code one developer It was really a innovative side gig that he was thinking about starting And we met and through the work through the embassy because he really wanted to Export his software into danmark

[00:37:21] And that's the job of an embassy is to build trade relations, right? And so we started talking and then he offered me a job And that was the first time ever I must have been 21 something 22

[00:37:39] And uh, he offered me a job. I had never ever in my entire life ever been recruited or offered a job anywhere at all it was the first time And uh, I didn't speak the language very well, Norwegian, right? I did not it's similar to danish

[00:37:55] But it's still a different language, right? I had I had never worked with tech before I knew how to Turn on a computer, but I had never worked with software before And I had never been, you know a salesperson per se Definitely not SAS software sales forget it

[00:38:14] But I thought, you know, why not let me try it and um Within six or seven months. I had done the biggest European installment of any early state software ever And we had no marketing but yet nothing and

[00:38:30] Fast forward four years after we were in 44 countries. I had scaled that company Uh, I had I had returned to danmark. I lived in a penthouse apartment in Copenhagen I made hundreds of thousands of dollars a month. I was throwing the wildest champagne parties in Copenhagen

[00:38:47] All this within four years Wow, so so how what do you think you're What do you think made your sales like what was your sales technique? Well, I have a really good eye for

[00:39:00] I've always done early stage software, you know where there basically is nothing right? There's no proven Sales pitch. There's no return on investment Paper it's all vision It's all we can draft this together kind of thing and

[00:39:17] That that demands a very require a very special set of skills I now know that but I didn't know that at that time So it happens to be that i'm very good in identifying in any country

[00:39:30] Who is the most powerful person in that country that I should know? How do I get in touch with that person? How do I get a meeting with that person and how and i'm very quick and very good in identifying?

[00:39:43] What is this person's vision him or herself like what would they like to achieve in life? And then I speak into that vision with the product and say let's go on this journey together. Shall we?

[00:39:53] So what's an example of like you're entering into a new country and you I Who was the important person? How did you meet them and you're like 21 22 23 years old at this point? Why would they meet you?

[00:40:05] Yeah, uh first and foremost, you know you you do you do represent something they find exciting and tech Tech can be very exciting for an ambitious company for an ambitious CEO or whatever right? They want to know what is the new thing boiling?

[00:40:17] What could be the thing that could set my company up against you know my competitors and if you can talk into that and you have a slightly Good vocabulary for you know visionary business development

[00:40:31] You know kind of phrases then you you can get a meeting the meeting is not the hard thing The hard thing is to go in get in there and build that vision and make them trust you that you can build that together with them

[00:40:42] Well, I mean to find out who's the most powerful person is really not that difficult You just open any newspaper. You just open the local news whatever in that country And you slightly now it's easy because you can search everything your social media and stuff

[00:40:56] But back then we didn't have all of that right? I mean we did have the internet of course of course, right? It's 99 and 98 99 and 2000s, but there was not the same But you know the internet was there in also in the newspapers, but people weren't necessarily using it

[00:41:11] Particularly CEOs who had been running their business for 20 years. They were just like what's this internet thing? Is it a fad and so you can and but it was exciting enough that people you're right people would want to know

[00:41:22] From a young person in particular. What is this internet thing? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? That's that's how we did it and so And you know it was very hard back then to find someone's email or phone number and you had to go through

[00:41:35] PAs and stuff and you know had to do the groundwork actually it's kind of I wrote a a book about you know in 2001 to Just a an e-book or whatever just a pdf file you could call whatever just a very easy

[00:41:53] You know a very light book about how to How to map Nurture and expand a professional network, right? And back then I had no I you know I had I've never seen such a book um, in fact, I was in 2001 invited to The stock exchange in danmark

[00:42:13] You have to remember this is just a few weeks a few years prior. I couldn't get a job, right? I left the country and here I am they flew me back to the stock exchange

[00:42:23] To give my first public speak ever and media was there and they were like slimer We need to know how you are doing this. How are you taking this? Norwegian company to the commercial success you have we've never heard about you before

[00:42:35] This is extraordinary and and they knew because one of the one of the installments that I did was from a for a very very Very large danish retailer. So it was out there in the news, right?

[00:42:46] And I stood up there young never gave a public speak before and I didn't know what to say so what I did was I just Took a pen and a whiteboard and I started explaining how I think of networking and how I process and map and

[00:43:05] Think about relationships building and how you can nurture and how you can Kind of I don't like the word use but monetize your network and this was before anyone had ever I don't remember. I've never seen a networking book or whatever strategic networking

[00:43:20] Class or whatever it was just it came intuitive to me because James. It is my survival skill Yeah, you had to be able to yeah, it was yeah, yeah exactly and it was this only skill

[00:43:32] That I knew of that was networking, but I didn't even know it was called networking right now we know But the other thing you probably did too was You probably had really strong empathy for what their problems might be and since it sounds like your sass software

[00:43:48] This is like before Probably the phrase sass even was really kind of new they probably They'd say well we need this this and you probably said we could do that whether or not you could do it

[00:44:00] 100% that's it. That's it. Yeah, that was that's great when you're selling something that actually That's the one benefit of not having a competitor when you have a competitor You could say well, we're better in this way and we're worse in this way and you guys decide

[00:44:12] But when you don't have a competitor sometimes it means there's no competitor because there's no need But the internet was so new sass software was so new there probably was a need but

[00:44:21] You had to kind of figure it out together with the customer. Yeah. Yeah, and and luckily we could we could deliver right? It was it was it was really good software What did it do like what kind of uh, you're gonna laugh

[00:44:32] But it was um, so you have to imagine this is uh year two thousand ninety nine two thousand and um, I was uh Mainly selling to retail chains

[00:44:42] And I spoke to the headquarter of any chain right retail and I said wouldn't it be amazing if you could sit at your headquarter And you could see real time

[00:44:51] The sales uh, and if you could you know, uh push education and notifications and messages to each of your stores And uh, yeah, it's great. It's so great. It's still a really great software. And uh, yeah, we did very well and um And this was before business intelligence

[00:45:12] Data management Yes, this whole thing became a huge industry it became a dashboard for Exactly and real time for your stores, right? And um So I did really well with that and I was living the best life in Copenhagen again

[00:45:30] And I couldn't believe my own luck and then something completely Unrealistic happened. I you know, I made my parents so happy and proud I don't think I've they've been any proud of me Then I got a call from hydric and struggle, you know, the big head honda company

[00:45:49] And they were like someone wants to hire you and I couldn't believe it. I was like really And they said yeah, it's musk shipping You know the biggest shipping company in the world and they were like they want you to come and be responsible for

[00:46:01] They have a new department It's called e-learning and they really want you to come and build relationship with the biggest financial institutions and companies and customers musk shipping had a it department called musk it and they wanted to hire me and I'm like wow

[00:46:19] I I can't I cannot pass all the IQ testing and whatnot So I don't know, you know, they only hire the smartest people. It's to this day It's still one of the most prestigious companies to work for in the world

[00:46:32] They do people don't people might not have heard of them But they do for instance a lot of shipping out of the Middle East for for everybody in the world to have oil Yeah, I mean the blue containers with the little star. That's that's musk

[00:46:45] And I knew it was it couldn't I mean at that point I couldn't believe, you know, it couldn't become bigger Right and they wanted me To come and work for them. They want to recruit me the tables had turned

[00:46:57] So I ended up accepting a job and I what happened to the company with the sasa for that guy Was probably upset that you he was very he was very upset, but he was very sweet about it

[00:47:08] I think he was proud also, right and in the fair wills shares like we're able to monetize your Yeah, I yeah, I did have shares But it was before I really understood how to monetize those and and buy them and you know stock options are really not easy

[00:47:22] If you're in Denmark, it's still not a thing. They really know how to do well So people don't have ownership in startups and so forth. But anyway Well in his farewell speech, he said something super kind. He said two things

[00:47:35] He said when we hired you we could not and understand a word of what you were saying because I spoke another language right I speak Danish and they speak Norwegian and You had never done such a job before But we decided to hire you And I said

[00:47:52] Well, that's I still don't understand why you hired me And he said because when you walked in that door we felt all your energy And we knew that you would learn anything That you need to succeed in the job and here we are four years later

[00:48:06] And you know, he's still very proud because then you know fast forward. I became 40 under 40 Thinkers 50 I became young global leader with mark soccerberg You know, I received all those kind of rewards afterwards, right?

[00:48:22] So he's still very proud because he kind of found me if you will right here. Yeah, yeah And so now you're at musk and then I then I had musk and then musk ended up selling the department that I was part of ah IBM borders

[00:48:38] and uh, I I never I never envisioned me working for IBM. I'll tell you I love IBM I have the deepest respect for them, but they just work slightly different I had more freedom at musk. I had I could do it my way

[00:48:49] That was definitely not the situation at IBM So I met with the CEO of IBM actually for danmark olle I hope he's still around. I'm not sure but we had a listen

[00:48:59] I get a chance to meet with him even like it was a you know, here I am this foster child school dropout Was kicked out of my my mom's sister's house because of a joint, you know

[00:49:12] Who am I sitting there in my suit with the CEO of of IBM? And he said, you know, slima I cheer you I I admire you I just don't think IBM is is for you like I I I don't think I think you're more unique than that

[00:49:26] I don't think you should spend your life in IBM At first I was very devastated. I felt turned down But he gave me a gift, you know, he set me free And it took only I guess a few weeks then I got another call from another headhunter

[00:49:42] From hula packers And then hula packers said would you like to come and work for us? They have never had I was the youngest That's funny because they have similar cultures to IBM. I would think I don't know

[00:49:54] Yeah, I think hula packered back then were more like car boards, right? There was more freedom They did things their way and stuff IBM was more the black school of you know

[00:50:05] A certain way of doing things HP is more wild it used to be I don't know how it is today Um, and um, and they said why don't you come over and why don't you become responsible for hula packered on Microsoft the partnership between us?

[00:50:17] And I'm like, whoa And I was like, what am I supposed to do? And they said well, we will give you 45 people reporting to you It's the smartest engineers we have And you shall build our service business for Microsoft with HP

[00:50:32] What many people don't know is that HP and Microsoft are actually strategic partners because they want to win deals from dill And IBM So they have something called front line partnership And that partnership was really not going well

[00:50:48] I think to some extent you could even say that Microsoft and HP did not like each other And they said can you go and fix this? And I said, I don't know. I've never tried it before but I'll give it a chance

[00:50:59] And uh, it was the it is to this day still the best job. I have ever had in my life And when I left HP, I had as the only HP employee I had a key access card to Microsoft

[00:51:12] I came and in and out of the building just as I liked to this day still I have calls and meetings with Microsoft They still love me for what I did for them and with them. We won a lot of deals

[00:51:25] And I was promoted to become responsible for our service department for entire HP very young. I don't know and um But I actually burned out. I was picked up twice by the ambulance Uh because I had a complete burnout

[00:51:41] What does that mean? Like why were you picked up by the ambulance? Uh because I thought I had a heart attack, but it was an anxiety anxiety attack, but I didn't know I know this sound might sound really stupid, but I didn't know that I was stressed

[00:51:55] No one had like told me this job that you have can make you stressed and this is how stress looks like I had no idea when you are a traumatized uh person like me With this life journey one thing that we are not good at I think is

[00:52:15] to Listen to our signals, right? I mean you're tired because like you said earlier. You didn't even have one day Where you were you could take a break from that worry like you had to constantly you know Hustle for yourself

[00:52:31] Yeah, so I could probably turn that part of your brain off Turned it off completely. I have actually been practicing the last 10 years to Acknowledge that i'm tired or I need food Or you know, I hadn't I like I was 47 kilos. I worked 20 hours a day

[00:52:50] James I loved it, but it's not healthy, right? So I was picked up by the ambulance and my doctor said, you know if we're picking you up one more time Then I wanted to quit job

[00:52:59] And I couldn't quit, you know for me my life was work, you know, I was really good at it Finally, I found something that I'm good at very good at So I decided to leave my position. That was a new CEO from hp both globally

[00:53:15] But also in danmark and I left my position And I took a smaller job. I took a small job. That was international director still but only with 12 people reporting

[00:53:26] Medical device something else just a cozy little job and I took my MBA and all that on the site, of course And I got my MBA by the way by not I was not even halfway qualified to take an MBA

[00:53:39] But nba the school gave me a wild card I I can tell you about how I managed to get an MBA without being qualified. But um Yeah And then a few months later I find out that I'm pregnant in the new job

[00:53:55] And I tell now when did you meet your husband? Yes, that's a very very important question. I met him when I was 20 just before I moved to luxembourg for that job in luxembourg um, I met him in a bus

[00:54:10] And uh, I met him, but I didn't talk to him I was with there with my girlfriend and he was in the bus with his best friend And we didn't talk but we saw each other and I told my girlfriend. Oh my god if I could

[00:54:20] Marry that guy. He's the most beautiful person I've ever seen and he said the same thing to his friend We didn't know and then six months later. I meet him at a bar And he pulled me in You know and whispers in my ear we need to talk

[00:54:35] And we've been together ever since that's 28 years ago Wow now Do you find that? The trauma you experienced and what you saw your parents go through sometimes these things, you know Not always the case but sometimes

[00:54:52] Boys inherit from the father and girls inherit from the mother and did it to any of that come into play in your relationship at all I was so afraid of committing myself in a relationship. I had no recipe of what does it mean to have a good marriage?

[00:55:05] I definitely did not want to have kids because I was so afraid of you know, maybe I would You know, trimestize my own children. Um, I've heard that if you have been abused as a child

[00:55:15] You might end up abusing your own children. You know, I was very afraid of all these things But brian my husband is the most healthy Person the most non-trimestized person I know on earth. He is Emotionally sober. He's so sober like he is

[00:55:34] Incredible, I mean James. He saved my life. I don't think I would have been around if it wasn't for him um, he has been my everything And I will not I don't say this lightly, but I'm not easy to live with as you can imagine

[00:55:50] But I'm not scaring him at all. Right. He's just in it Full-time super committed There's one thing two things. I'm very proud of in life

[00:55:59] I mean in this podcast we talk about job and career and how incredible it is that I've had this journey and I have this journey But the credit goes to my private life 100 percent. I have the most incredible children

[00:56:12] um, it's not easy for them either to be my children, right imagine and he Is my guardian angel. It's incredible what you can do in life when you feel loved. That is incredible I think that's true because I think that frees up look

[00:56:28] People are either anxious about money or relationships and also health. Yes, and If you're not if you don't have the anxiety So let's say that's equal thirds in people's let's say pie chart of of emotions if you don't have the uh

[00:56:48] Anxiety in the relationship. I think that's so much extra energy you could devote towards career and and and health He you can't start a company if you're arguing with your spouse every day You cannot you cannot you know, you cannot

[00:57:05] Yeah, I think you're right and we agree on everything when it comes to our core values, right? We we agree on How much money do we feel comfortable making or not making right where do we want to live what does freedom look like?

[00:57:20] Uh, how do we want to raise a family? uh, what is What makes us happy And I'm kind of sad you cannot see it because I am sitting in this great light and we have this studio and For everyone that's not watching I have an incredible studio

[00:57:35] But what you cannot see is that I'm sitting at my kitchen table in my two-bed room apartment in Palo Alto in Silicon Valley And I'm sitting here because we left for us seven years ago

[00:57:47] But only two years ago we started a company we started over and I went from making hundreds of thousands of dollars a month Flying private having a private driver To living in a two-bed room apartment And I have started all over again and I'm sitting

[00:58:05] Now i'm responsible for a small startup that is worth 30 million dollars and I created that from my kitchen table Again, and that's uh, that's uh, happy. Oh right. It's happy. Oh, yeah You do this ai software. So like let's say we were having a meeting uh, and

[00:58:21] You know a lot of things are set in a meeting often nothing gets accomplished and nothing gets done afterwards And your software takes from what I understand it's like an ai that sort of

[00:58:31] Analyzes the conversation in the meeting and figures out the tasks and the and the goals and the things that are supposed to happen After the meeting almost Close enough though, but uh a meeting is usually divided into three processes before During and after right?

[00:58:49] You are mostly explaining what happens during a meeting But in fact what we are mostly doing is that we are putting a spam filter on outlook So every time you invite someone or someone invites you if I invite you to a meeting james, then

[00:59:03] Happy tells me. Oh, you cannot invite james unless you tell him why he's useless No, you cannot invite him unless you tell him why he's invited. What is this? What is the objective of this meeting? Who else is coming?

[00:59:16] What is he supposed to present and what is the desired outcome? So we put it on the top of your outlook or google or apple calendar or whatever and it's an enterprise software So it's it's it's really an ai spam filter for meetings

[00:59:29] That's great. It's that's very useful and and how's it you you obviously raise money at a 30 million dollar valuation or or Yeah, I mean um Well, it's uh, we have a 30 million dollar valuation and we just we have raised seven and a half million dollars

[00:59:45] from some of the most remarkable investors in the bay area and The reason I'm mostly proud of this is that back to our main conversation is I've never done this before It is really the first time ever that I

[01:00:00] That I have been raising capital that I have been the CEO of a startup myself. I've never raised I never When I came to the bay area I had no network. I have no relationships. I you know, I had never ever spoken to a VC before

[01:00:17] How did you when you just moved to the bay area? How did you start? I mean, there's definitely networking conferences, but I find those to be a little bit annoying actually in the bay area It's hard. You have to be a little bit on the spectrum um

[01:00:29] No, you know, uh, I think I'm good at figuring out how to get along with people and find out, you know again How can we build something together how to talk to this person? um, how to make him or her interested in in investing in our giant future

[01:00:47] And I guess if I'm a VC and I see that Your background I would think okay, obviously she's been in thousands of meetings And so she knows the dynamic. She knows the DNA of a meeting and what can go wrong

[01:00:59] So, okay, I trust her on that and then I would think well She has these relationships inside microsoft hp other large companies that she sold to so my worst case scenario is probably She could sell the company to somebody she knows eventually at one of these places

[01:01:13] This is what I'm I would be thinking in the back of my head So that if I put like two million in and I have a liquidation preference I'm at least going to get two million out is what I would how I would think about it

[01:01:23] That's actually also what I think uh, and we have money from, uh, you know sells force microsoft All kind, you know, so yeah, you're right. We have the most incredible investors. So that's right

[01:01:33] I think they think what is the worst thing that can happen, right? And I'm not a quitter clearly so um, and you know We actually managed to uh raise a significant check Just seven and a half is uh, that's that's a good round everyone here

[01:01:50] You know, I don't know how it is in other places and But at least in the bay area not a lot of people have done up rounds, right? We three xed our valuation still in seed actually, which is very unusual

[01:02:01] That's unbelievable like seven and a half out of 30 and you're not and you're in in seed or series a like pre-revenue Pre-revenue like right now particularly 2023. Yeah, pre-revenue. That would have been unheard of unheard of so, you know The thing is again Again, I'm beating the odds, right

[01:02:19] And the AI the the fact that there's an AI component also helps because everybody would have new AI funds They wanted to put the money to work to show that they were busy

[01:02:29] So you were like you had a good timing too. I have a good timing. You also have to understand timing as well Of course Yeah, and I think being a woman of color and immigrant and all these things does help unless you look at them as

[01:02:41] You know something that's going to victimize you um But you know what you ask about us, um I became an entrepreneur in 2007 already. I built this is my fifth startup

[01:02:55] Uh, but this is the first time I take VC capital, which is kind of interesting. It's an interesting journey It's not for everyone No, because it's a different type of company then like you have to use all your marketing skills not to sell your product but uh

[01:03:10] Basically sell your ideas in exchange for Investment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and yet you still have to prove traction, right? I mean early stage software companies what you ideally want them to have is a hard lineup of You know proof of concepts early adapters

[01:03:28] Let off of intent ideally contracts, you know Good cto great tech team Uh all these things so you have to do a lot of things at the same time Um, I definitely aged the last two years. I definitely aged 10 years. That's how I feel

[01:03:46] It must feel like that because I think to some extent. I mean, I've started a whole bunch of companies and I'm so I'm so I think that's such an unpleasant feeling to go through the kind of like you've you've gone through this classic startup phase

[01:04:00] particularly with this last one where You know Software, you know using all the buzzwords you have all the relationships And then you have to make the VC relationships and then make a pitch deck and go up and down Sandhill road or whatever road is there now and

[01:04:16] I find that to be so unpleasant that I either I I lean towards Starting companies that are profitable from day one like I get a customer first and then make the product or I invest in companies that you know

[01:04:33] I find it better to be an investor than an entrepreneur these days. Yeah, I I feel you Well, you know, I did not start building any Not even a string of code What I did first was I went to the biggest aviation company in the world

[01:04:49] And I sat with the chairman and I explained remember Again finding the first client before anything else and I said if I built this will you buy it?

[01:04:58] And he said I will buy it and we sign an agreement and we agreed on a price and then I start building So I see so what's critical there because I've heard that story before and then you build it and then they don't buy it

[01:05:09] But what's critical there is that you got the agreement agreement and you You agree on a price And you know just this morning before I went on this podcast with you one of our investors just in you know

[01:05:21] Introduce us to the three largest companies in europe just in one call right see all She also happens to be the chairman of the biggest company in the world So I think you know, it's also about really Your team is one thing right

[01:05:36] But also picking the right customers in the beginning, you know You want to be associated with the right brands the right yeah If you're associated with like blu-tcha brands that are using your software and have hundreds of offices around the world

[01:05:47] People it's one of those things which you're from probably familiar with the saying that since you were at IBM Oh, you can't get fired for buying from IBM. It was like they're slow, right?

[01:05:56] You're so right beta is not for everyone. It's hard to be a beta software company But I will say uh I'm very proud of what we have accomplished this far

[01:06:06] But I will say and you know now we spend a decent amount of time talking about what I have been through in my life I will say that being a founder The past two years In silicon valley has been

[01:06:20] The mental hardest game. I've ever been through in my entire life And I know it might it must sound silly But I've never been this afraid for my own mental well-being. I've never been this worried

[01:06:33] I actually have never had a situation where I said to my husband if this continues this way I think you have to lock me up somewhere for a week I've never been there. I I I've never been this far out. What's been the hardest part

[01:06:45] I think it's the psychological pressure. It's uh all the rejections. I mean, I'm used to being rejected You know James even when I was a child like when I was first grade I invited kids over for my birthday and my mom had prepared a

[01:06:59] Birthday meal but no children came right. I mean all my life has been like that. Yeah, it's horrible Sometimes my children even cry when they hear stories about my child. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's so sweet. But listen

[01:07:12] I can I can that's okay. You know, I've been rejected everywhere. I couldn't get a job You know, I had to leave my country and everything but it is it's the pressure I was warned against Becoming a founder in silicon valley. I don't know if it's

[01:07:27] Silicon valley ish or if it's just I don't know. I was warned that this would be hard It's a combination of a lot of things everyone you meet Uh anxious somehow they look super calm Very well put together, but the psychological pressure here is enormous

[01:07:46] I mean on my right hand side. I have tim cook. He's my neighbor apple I have larry page google on my my my Left hand side. I have Steve jobs widow. Loreen lives down the street here and I have marissa mayor on my left right

[01:08:00] So I my street is just crazy. So even if I raised seven and a half million my neighbor just raised 2.3 billion or whatever, you know and so and um um I will say In a way You do sell your soul a little bit Yeah, I think that's yeah

[01:08:23] I think do you think in every sales situation you saw your soul a little bit? I don't know. I think these the vc game is just slightly different I don't know. Yeah, because because I guess the dream for them is they want to make 100 times their money

[01:08:37] That's a real success. Yeah, they don't want 10x or the 50x. They want 100x They want to go right because they figure on average their fund is great if after after 10 years It's 10x up overall So that means they need some they need to aim for the moonshots

[01:08:50] They need to aim for the 100x, you know things and yeah, and It's It's hard But it's hard to pitch them But james, it's still a privilege, right? I cannot sit here and whine

[01:09:05] Over the fact that i'm running a tech startup in silicon. Right? It's a privilege. I don't agree. I think you can I think you can yes because now I I've mentioned in the beginning and then just now we mentioned

[01:09:15] The rejection aspect and you remind you said it you repeated as if you were reminding yourself Oh, no, I went through all the rejection when I was younger But you know, it's not it's never pleasant to be rejected even once and

[01:09:29] Even now even after all the armor you've built up It's never pleasant and in this constant the rejection there and plus not only that like you said Everybody around you is a billionaire or or 100 millionaire or whatever

[01:09:42] And and so there's a lot of pressure in that sense too like that's gonna Not like an envy sort of pressure, but it's just around it's just in your head. It's taking up real estate Like silicon valley. I think is is weird

[01:09:56] Mental real estate somehow which is why I never moved there But I always Wondered if I should like I never did but I always wondered if I was Gonna regret it later. Not You you you just moved ish, right?

[01:10:09] So will you put another move and you're just settling where you're living now But you could live here and I'll tell you why because you love learning You love people you love stories, you know, and you know

[01:10:21] I've never lived in a place where there are so many smart people Everyone you talk to it could even be a mom Not nothing against mom. I'm mom myself But listen a mom who's picking up her second grader, right?

[01:10:34] And you just talk to her for five minutes then she has a triple phc from stanford and sees rock and sign, you know, everyone here is smart, right? And so I don't know about you, but I feel like a third grader every day

[01:10:46] I think that I think that's exciting and I know a lot. I mean, I know a lot of ec's and silicon valley You know, I know a lot of people there and I probably know some of your investors. I'm sure and

[01:10:56] But and they are everybody is super smart. I don't know. I just never um I never took the Plunge to go out there because I knew it would be all consuming and I don't all consuming

[01:11:08] It is all I don't know if I could handle that like I like to do many things And and I'm sure you do as well But when you're when you're building a company like that that's in the middle of silicon valley and it's going to be vc funded

[01:11:19] It's got to be your thousand percent focus Well, uh everything else suffers, right? To be quite honest. Yeah. Yeah, you have to focus Uh, and I don't know do you feel like you've over some hurdle now that you've raised the

[01:11:33] This round and then you've got these customers and yeah, it's really weird You know, we raised file five million just a few weeks ago. We signed the term sheet and everything and I

[01:11:43] Just as I signed it another big fund came like the dream fund of my life and said well We would also like to put in between one and three million and I'm like really So you kind of get this snowball effect, right? Um

[01:11:56] I don't know until the money is wired until the new team member starts then I It will always feel a little surreal So I I don't celebrate just yet even though that everything is signed and stuff and I know it's

[01:12:10] Yeah, there's a neck. There's always the next thing like now you have to like you like you've been doing You've been closing customers. Okay, but now you've got to deliver the product and collect the money and

[01:12:19] Exactly then you have to show growth because if without growth the valuation sort of falters and uh It is never ending until you sell the company and then the most dangerous part begins I think after you sell the company That people kind of hold off

[01:12:34] Being sick until their companies are sold and then you have to watch out. Well, I don't want to scare you but I Know people who it's as if you could kind of like force yourself to be healthy

[01:12:45] Until all that stress is over and then your body's like, okay Can I be sick now and then it all comes out? So that's that's always a point. I warn people like you've got to Be careful at that moment. Well, yeah, it's definitely something to think about

[01:12:59] I will say I Live more healthy now that I've ever done before because I cannot afford to waste any brain calories, right? Sure sleep exercise alcohol anything You have to be super aware and awake it's really It's almost like taking part of olympics, but for entrepreneurs, right?

[01:13:22] You don't go to silicon valley and build a startup if you want to just be ish Successful you go here if you want to and you believe you can make it big

[01:13:31] Otherwise you don't go here, right? Then you go to I don't know berlin or london or no offense, but uh But you don't go to silicon valley if you just want to have acid you have to be sorry

[01:13:41] You have to go here if you really believe you can make it big and your software can be part of you know The standard suite of microsoft or be bought by yeah zoom or whatever, right? You don't you don't go here if you yeah

[01:13:53] Now do you get worried ai is moving so fast? um Do you do you think do you ever get worried that okay someone could just tomorrow? Of course like I don't think your your your your moat is probably not your product

[01:14:05] It's probably your relationships really. Yeah. Yeah, it is it is and the contracts, right? And uh today I spoke to one of the biggest companies in the world, right? And they're pretty sophisticated on ai already and they said we have not seen a product that is

[01:14:17] Doing what you do pre meeting It's really the pre meeting market space, right? No one is attacking that everyone is doing note taking and Post meeting follow-ups and stuff but no one does anything pre meetings which is

[01:14:31] Really weird because you can diagnose a low quality meeting long before it takes place Who cares about what is going on during the meeting, right? Because then you're there, right? But I really don't want you to be in that meeting at all if it's not worth your time

[01:14:45] Yeah, I can see how how like so if let's say i'm the CEO of a company and i'm evaluating your product I could think to myself well. Hmm. Can my it department do this? Well, do I really?

[01:14:57] A the budget set do I really want to dedicate their resource to this when I could just buy this product right here? It's just off the shelf Yeah, I mean you should ask your cto, right if you are a CEO of a big company. Hey listen, john ben

[01:15:09] Jane how many percenters of our meetings are worth people's time if the cto cannot answer this then you need our product Yeah, and uh So that's good. Well congratulations on the round. That's incredible and

[01:15:25] Really congratulations on everything by the way. I should mention you write a column for four And your column today was how was snoop dog talking about self mastery?

[01:15:34] So I just wanted to ask like how do and I I believe you actually once wrote an article that this was about I think in 2014 Um, I said snoop dog should be CEO of twitter because he was jokingly himself saying he should be CEO of twitter

[01:15:48] And I I said here's 10 reasons why snoop dog should be CEO of twitter and he reposted it Like he retweeted it and said he's got the message So I uh, I think I agree with you snoop dog is fantastic. I think he should deserve much more

[01:16:02] A applause than he does right. He's so extraordinary talented and insightful Um, yes, I write for Forbes. I have a weekly show for the world economic forum every saturday. I interview head of states

[01:16:15] Uh from this humble kitchen table, right? It's pretty awesome. I've done that for four years I I've interviewed malala. I've shared a stage with anas watch nigger You know, I've done incredible stuff in my life and that despite the fact that I learned to speak english in 2007

[01:16:30] right? I mean everything I've done in my life. I've done it through hustle and access to free education online I I really just Wrapped it together somehow in my own way. I I should tell you by the way when I built happyo

[01:16:48] One of our investors gave me a playbook how to build a successful sass company. There's a playbook for that I looked at it. It looked it it was next to me for the lying next to me for a few months

[01:17:00] And I was so obsessed about it, right? And only when I threw it out That was really when I started thriving. So I also think Sometimes we're so obsessed about reading how things should be done that we forget to maybe follow the flow uh surrender

[01:17:15] See every situation even every every person we meet not categorize them as good or bad But just as a learning And I really believe that life will not let me down. She has invested too much in me to let me down

[01:17:31] And I think also you have so much experience On every side of the table That That is going to propel Your business forward more than a book more than some kid who

[01:17:42] You know built a sass company and sold it for 400 million and then wrote a book about it like You've got the real deal on both sides. You're providing value And I think always leading with value is is is really strong

[01:17:55] Yeah, and then be sincere in why you're doing it, right? You spoke a few weeks about ago. Have you done that a few times in your podcasts? Building something meaningful Is what needs to be done. You cannot I mean hope is important Passion is important all these things

[01:18:13] Motivation I don't believe in motivation, right? I'm driven by my principles And healthy routines and then I have Vision and it has to have a great deal of purpose That's a real interesting thing you just said that you don't believe in motivation because I

[01:18:29] Agree with that because if you only work when you're motivated You're gonna work one tenth of the time like you have to what's success is is working when you don't feel motivated

[01:18:40] You know when you wake up and at four in the morning or five in the morning or whatever you do And and you get up even though you don't want to yeah, and that's success

[01:18:49] I mean it's just like anything else. I don't know about sport. You know, I didn't grow up with sport I you know, I couldn't afford the privilege of thinking about sport. I was trying to survive But when I was 15 16 I started exercising and you know, I started running

[01:19:03] Um and fast forward. I've done a few extreme races since then, you know I did a few mix miss fitness competitions is bodybuilding for women I've done all kind of ski math and whatnot just extreme stuff, right?

[01:19:17] And every time the recipe has been the same I sleep in my gym wear, right? I put my shoes out. So when the Alarm winds winds off at 5 a.m. I don't have to argue with myself. Do I feel like running?

[01:19:29] Of course, I don't feel like running so So I don't trust my motivation motivation comes and goes but your principles and your routines They are there to stay so you better make sure that you have healthy routines

[01:19:39] Of course, you're not a machine, right? I'm not a machine but just two three four five healthy habits Overall in your life will set you up for success. And you know, I am really not that smart

[01:19:50] I am not I don't believe that I don't believe no James. No James. No, no, I'm serious here I'm not, you know, I have not had math since fourth grade That's not smart. I mean that that's not an example of okay, but you know what I mean

[01:20:04] I'm not educated, right? I keep laughing because people are so much more educated than me And I actually think it's a good thing that I'm not super educated because I can afford I have the privilege of allowing myself to be an amateur

[01:20:21] And unlike a lot of people, I don't care if I only have one subscriber for my newsletter or one whatever Because I have always started with out with nothing. Nothing has been given To me at scale and you can laugh

[01:20:36] That's fine. People have laughed at me many times. You can reject me You can let me be all by myself alone and don't invite me to anything. That's okay too because I've celebrated birthdays and Christmases all by myself. So that's not a punishment

[01:20:50] So in a way, even if I lose everything once again I do know who I am when I have nothing and I can live with that too Well, it's been such a pleasure having you on the podcast. I'm glad our mutual friend

[01:21:07] AvaTik introduced us and where can people Find you like or where do you want to people to look for you? Well, I love connecting on twitter So twitter is definitely a good place, but I also have a home page sulima.com. It's just my name

[01:21:24] s o u l a i m a dot com And then yeah linked in also Instagram, I'm also active I'm just really honored to be on this podcast today. I had no idea The honor is all mine believe me. Really?

[01:21:41] Yeah, I was very excited like I said to Ava our mutual friend Oh, you have to introduce me like he started telling me a little bit your your story and I'm like, no, no Just I'll ask her about it on the podcast

[01:21:54] I'm really grateful you're here. Yeah, I don't know. Here's the thing. You are the most humanized Author and podcast in the entire world. So the honor is all mine

[01:22:05] Oh, well, I appreciate I appreciate you saying that thank you. Thank you so much and again come back on anytime and You know, it's been such a pleasure having you on so I'm really grateful Thank you so much James. Thank you so much