The Next Billion-Dollar Bitcoin Idea: Inscriptions and Ordinals

[00:00:00] Listening to your favorite podcast? That's smart. Earning your degree online from Southern

[00:00:04] New Hampshire University? That's really smart. With 24-7 access to coursework, no-set class times,

[00:00:11] and dedicated student support, you can go to school when and where it works for you. Low

[00:00:15] online tuition means you can even do it for less. And dedicated student support means we'll be

[00:00:20] with you from day one to graduation and beyond. Join a community of learners just like you.

[00:00:25] Go to snhu.edu today to start your free application.

[00:00:29] We all have that friend who wakes up early to go get everyone, McDonald's breakfast,

[00:00:34] or the rest of us, sleep in. This is your sign to thank them. And if you're that friend,

[00:00:40] this is us saying, thank you. Just a friendly reminder that right now get any size iced coffee

[00:00:47] before 11 a.m. for just 99 cents. And a satisfying sausage McMuffin with egg is just

[00:00:52] $2.79. Price and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer or combo meal.

[00:01:02] This isn't your average business podcast, and he's not your average host. This is the James Altucher show.

[00:01:09] Tim Collins

[00:01:18] A few weeks ago, I was talking to Tim Collins who has been on this podcast before. He's talked about

[00:01:24] NFTs and crypto and so on in this podcast before. I was talking to Tim Collins,

[00:01:29] and I never was really that into NFTs, but Tim got me super excited about the potential for,

[00:01:39] and I guess they'll describe the differences, but something called inscriptions and ordinals,

[00:01:45] which is like what NFTs are to Ethereum. Inscriptions and ordinals seem to be an

[00:01:51] improved version, but on Bitcoin, but much more interesting. And I'm going to let Tim

[00:01:57] and Ben Honegg from SAS Republic describe, but how are you guys doing?

[00:02:03] Hey James, it's good to be back. I got super excited to see what we were talking about.

[00:02:06] Oh, I know. We were driving around Austin in a car. And by the way, how good was that food?

[00:02:11] Oh my God. It was excellent, but I had so many questions about these inscriptions,

[00:02:17] I barely remember the food. I was going to say on that whole car ride over,

[00:02:21] I don't think I got out half an answer before you were asking the next question.

[00:02:25] And you are correct. The ordinal movement on Bitcoin or the discovery of Bitcoin is a big deal.

[00:02:35] And when you think about the comparison to NFTs and everything that NFTs lacked, which

[00:02:42] a lot of times just, we were talking about PNGs or JPEGs in their house,

[00:02:48] in the cloud, as opposed to being actual data. Bitcoin, 20, I always say Bitcoin fixes this.

[00:02:56] But in that case, it's actually true where this becomes something permanent

[00:03:00] and something that stays there. It's going to outlive us all. But...

[00:03:04] But like NFTs created a market of millions and tens of millions of dollars. And it's still,

[00:03:10] I don't want to say it's thriving, but it still exists. But this inscriptions and

[00:03:14] ordinals seems like a real thing that people could get. Like NFTs just always had a bullshit flavor

[00:03:21] to me. And maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But this seems like really real. And maybe you could...

[00:03:27] Like, maybe you guys could describe a little more what it is and then how one could make one

[00:03:33] and why one would make one and so on. Well, let me do this. We'll start.

[00:03:37] I'm going to turn it over to Ben here and introduce Ben. Ben, I met through the pizza

[00:03:41] artifacts, ordinal collection, which it was actually the second thing I ever inscribed.

[00:03:50] And it was the first collection that was ever done on the exotic pizza sats. If you think back to...

[00:03:57] Gosh, when was that Ben? The first pizza that was first?

[00:04:00] May 22nd.

[00:04:01] The first pizza season.

[00:04:02] 2010. So this is one 10,000... 10,000 Bitcoins were used to buy one size of pizza.

[00:04:09] That's exactly right.

[00:04:10] The world's most expensive pizza.

[00:04:11] Who was that guy? Who was the guy who did it?

[00:04:14] Laszlo Hanya's, his name.

[00:04:16] I hope he ultimately made some money on Bitcoin.

[00:04:20] Me too. Me too. $700 million fades a bad one.

[00:04:24] Yeah.

[00:04:24] I mean, do you think he kills himself?

[00:04:28] No.

[00:04:28] I think... I've seen some interviews about him and he sits here and he's like,

[00:04:32] listen, if I didn't do it, Bitcoin wouldn't be what it is today. So if anything, you're

[00:04:37] welcome.

[00:04:37] I don't know about that. He's taking a lot of credit.

[00:04:40] But he did demonstrate.

[00:04:41] It was the first ever transaction.

[00:04:42] Yep. Real world purchase.

[00:04:44] But so Ben, I met Ben through that and that got me turned on to the whole idea of Sats before it was...

[00:04:52] You know, I have a very low...

[00:04:53] A Sats is a Satoshi, which is one billionth of a Bitcoin.

[00:04:56] One hundredth millionth.

[00:04:59] So...

[00:04:59] One 100 millionth of a Bitcoin.

[00:05:00] So the same way that there's 100 pennies and $1, there's 100 million Satoshis in one Bitcoin.

[00:05:08] Imagine asking for that change.

[00:05:10] So, I have a couple of questions. You made an inscription relating to these pizza coins...

[00:05:21] These... The bitcoins actually used in the transaction for the pizza.

[00:05:27] It's as if I had like a dollar that Barack Obama used to ride the subway on his way to voting or

[00:05:35] something. So it's as if I had an actual dollar.

[00:05:37] Sure.

[00:05:38] Sure.

[00:05:38] And so you took a Satoshi from one of these 10,000 Bitcoins that were used in the very first Bitcoin

[00:05:46] transaction and you inscribed like a picture of a pizza on it.

[00:05:51] So what is the meaning of that?

[00:05:53] What's the value of that?

[00:05:54] Why did you do that?

[00:05:55] What is this?

[00:05:56] What's an inscription?

[00:05:58] Yeah, for sure.

[00:05:58] That maybe you could answer.

[00:06:01] Did you start the pizza project that Tim got excited about?

[00:06:05] Yes, yes I did.

[00:06:06] And I know a mutual friend of ours through the board Ape community just from being a part of that

[00:06:10] previously. Still am.

[00:06:12] And you have a board Ape NFT hanging right behind you?

[00:06:16] I do. It's the Rolling Stone magazine. There's a few other from the different Ape

[00:06:21] Fest over here. I got to do something with all the memorabilia.

[00:06:24] Now, do you have an original... Speaking of NFTs, do you have an original board Ape NFT?

[00:06:29] Yeah, of course.

[00:06:30] And what's that like?

[00:06:32] I think right now, last I looked, the floor is at 14 E, which is obviously down from all

[00:06:40] time highs, big time.

[00:06:41] It's still 42,000 dollars.

[00:06:43] It's still, yeah, I was about to say ETH is still up. It's still not cheap. That being said,

[00:06:48] a lot of Ethereum projects are losing a lot of steam, including crypto punks right now because

[00:06:53] the big craze in ordinals right now. That being said, I think crypto punks have staying power.

[00:06:58] I think that board Apes are still the most well-capitalized NFT company in the world.

[00:07:07] I think that there's hope. I think that obviously every company goes through their bumps, but

[00:07:11] I think what's interesting is that board Apes are still always talked about.

[00:07:14] They're still like the strongest IP play when it comes to Web 3.

[00:07:17] And there's... Pudgy Penguins are definitely giving them a run for their money,

[00:07:21] but everyone knows what a board Ape is still.

[00:07:24] So I think there's still a full tree that relevant.

[00:07:26] I always thought there wasn't anything truly artistic about NFTs or...

[00:07:33] Like, okay, there maybe is some utility. Maybe they could be used as tickets or...

[00:07:37] I was trying to think of use cases for NFTs. This is another topic we've talked about NFTs,

[00:07:44] but there's something that seems intrinsically interesting about inscriptions and ordinals

[00:07:50] to me. And also by the way, for Bitcoin miners, this is very interesting. It's a way,

[00:07:54] a new revenue source now that the halving is going to cut their revenues in half.

[00:07:58] So maybe describe what this pizza inscription is, and then we can start from that.

[00:08:06] For sure. So what I'll actually start with initially is what are ordinals

[00:08:10] and how does this all work? So essentially there's a Bitcoin dev named Casey Rodmore

[00:08:15] who invented something called Ordinal Theory. What Ordinal Theory does is it's a lens into

[00:08:20] Bitcoin, meaning it's built on top of Bitcoin's preexisting protocol.

[00:08:24] And what he's telling us, he's created a protocol on top of that that assigns numbers to each individual

[00:08:29] Satoshi starting from the first one to the last one. So you have the Genesis block that Satoshi

[00:08:34] Nakamoto mined and every single Satoshi in each Bitcoin is assigned an individual number,

[00:08:39] zero, one, two, three, four, five, six, and so on and so forth.

[00:08:43] Up to 21 million.

[00:08:44] Yes.

[00:08:45] Well, remember 21 million times 100 million.

[00:08:51] Is the number of Satoshi's and they're numbered?

[00:08:54] Correct.

[00:08:56] And so these exotic pizza sats for instance are, as you do the numbering and you see when

[00:09:03] the transaction happened for of those 10,000 Bitcoin for the two piles of pizza,

[00:09:07] you're able to say, oh, those are these specific sats because you can see when that

[00:09:12] transaction happened on chain, you can take a look at the block for go to May 22nd,

[00:09:17] 2010 and you can very clearly see a transaction for 10,000 Bitcoin.

[00:09:22] Okay. So step one is, and this is interesting to me, you have to look like, let's say I'm

[00:09:28] hypothetically interested in some historical occasion on the Bitcoin black chain,

[00:09:33] a transaction that occurred like the very first transaction, 10,000 Bitcoins for one pizza

[00:09:40] pie. And first step is I have to find those 10,000 coins.

[00:09:48] Correct. Now obviously with there being 10,000 Bitcoin in that transaction,

[00:09:55] that's a lot of Satoshi's. So pizza artifacts like pizza sats, pizza artifacts are different,

[00:10:00] but pizza sats are exotic. They're not rare. There's a ton of them and they're pretty

[00:10:05] inexpensive to acquire because they're part of 10,000 Bitcoin, but they have a great story.

[00:10:10] But how would I even find those 10 Satoshi's from those 10,000 Bitcoin?

[00:10:14] For sure. So when you send Bitcoin from one person to another, for instance, if you have

[00:10:19] one Bitcoin and you send me one Bitcoin, but maybe you have 10 Bitcoin in your wallet,

[00:10:24] I'm getting one Bitcoin from you, but the underlying Satoshi's that build,

[00:10:28] that make up that UTXO that you're sending are totally different.

[00:10:32] So what people do is they'll sat hunt. So for instance, I'll take 10 Bitcoin and send it to

[00:10:37] Coinbase and then I'll withdraw it back. Now, while I might still be sending 10 Bitcoin to Coinbase

[00:10:42] and receiving 10 Bitcoin in return, the underlying Satoshi's that I'm getting are

[00:10:45] different. So what I'm able to do is imagine you have like 10 decks of cards

[00:10:49] and you're shuffling them all around and you're trying to find all the ace of spades.

[00:10:52] That's what's happening over here. You're sifting through different Bitcoin and extracting

[00:10:56] individual sats. And the way you do that is you're able to go and manipulate the

[00:11:00] different UTXOs and take out the individual Satoshi's.

[00:11:04] So I'm just, I know this is getting probably a little technical for listeners.

[00:11:09] So let's say first, I just want to find one of the 10,000 Bitcoins that were used in

[00:11:16] the pizza transaction. How would I go about finding that Bitcoin?

[00:11:20] Well, nowadays, I mean, like you could go to the Block Explorer, you could,

[00:11:24] you know, like Mempool.space or Block Explorer, you know, any Block Explorer.

[00:11:29] He doesn't want to give away all the secrets though.

[00:11:32] Imagine, but you just, you know, literally go scroll back or if you're, you know,

[00:11:38] writing some code, you can query the indexers and find that exact date and find the transactions

[00:11:42] that happened on that. And what if someone owns that Bitcoin right now? What if that's

[00:11:45] buried in some wallet somewhere? For sure. So there's really cool tools that you can go to

[00:11:49] like satting.io that allows you to copy and paste a wallet address. And it will tell

[00:11:54] you the Satoshi's in that wallet. Another great place to go is a rare sat marketplace

[00:11:58] called Magisat, magisat.io. And you can put your wallet address in there and it will show you

[00:12:04] the actual rare and exotic Satoshi's in your wallet. And these can be pizzas or for instance,

[00:12:11] a really popular one are the Block 9 sat or the Block 9 450Xs, which are the first transaction

[00:12:17] to ever happen on Bitcoin period. This is when Satoshi sent money to Howfinny. He sent 50

[00:12:25] Bitcoin. So you can have a Block 9. So 50X100 million Satoshi's exist from that very first

[00:12:31] transaction. For sure. And Tim, you just said you own some of those Satoshi's. Yeah, I know Ben does

[00:12:37] as well, but I finally broke down and went and bought a bunch of the exotics and basically

[00:12:44] kind of like a diverse portfolio of exotics between Palindromes and JPEGs and vintage.

[00:12:49] Where did you buy them? Did you find them in one of your wallet? Actually, Magisat.

[00:12:52] No, Magisat. I went through Magisat. That is- What's the odds if I have like 10 Bitcoin?

[00:12:57] What's the odds if I look at my wallet? There's one of those Satoshi's.

[00:13:02] Not high. That's the thing. A Block 9 is incredibly difficult to find because

[00:13:07] those are so early. Those are mostly on dead wallets that just haven't moved in years. So

[00:13:12] to actually get one in circulation, it's not easy right now. It's obviously, you know,

[00:13:18] like that Palindrome or an Alpha or something. For sure. And Uncommons are a little bit easier also.

[00:13:25] A Palindrome being not- Remember, each Satoshi is numbered. So that number is just a Palindrome.

[00:13:33] Same as it forward, as it is backwards. So the Satoshi number is the same forward as it is

[00:13:38] backwards. So every Bitcoin, all 21 million Bitcoins have Palindromes, have repeating numbers,

[00:13:44] and the whole thing. They're given a Sat number, and that Sat number could be a Palindrome or it

[00:13:49] could be an Alpha-Numeric Palindrome. But specifically though, this Block 9 Satoshi's

[00:13:56] are Satoshi's that were in one of those first 50 Bitcoins. How do you extract the Satoshi

[00:14:03] from the Bitcoin? So, Satting and Magisat both have really easy to use tools now where you

[00:14:09] can just connect your wallet and it will automatically with a very frizzy user interface

[00:14:13] you can literally just click on the Sat type, click isolate and it's done. What's going on?

[00:14:19] Yeah, exactly. Obviously, you know, it might get a little too technical for the audience what's

[00:14:23] going on behind the hood. But what's happening is essentially rearranging different Sats and

[00:14:28] splitting up different UTXOs to reorganize these and kind of move the position of each

[00:14:33] Sat within a UTXO. And for people that don't know, a UTXO is an unspent transaction output,

[00:14:39] which is money that you have yet to actually spend from your wallet.

[00:14:43] So, there's two things interesting. One is this underlines the difference between Bitcoins and a

[00:14:49] dollar. Like I can't take a US dollar and give you the exact pennies that come from that dollar.

[00:14:55] It just so happens, a penny is worth one one-hundredth of a dollar, but a dollar isn't

[00:15:01] made up of 100 pennies that I could then pull out and spend individually. Like a Bitcoin,

[00:15:07] you can actually take it apart and pull the pennies out of a Bitcoin. So that's interesting.

[00:15:12] But the other interesting thing, like take this Block 9 thing or the or the or the pizza transactions,

[00:15:17] and this is a big difference between inscriptions and NFTs. It seems like there's

[00:15:22] what makes something valuable, like what makes a specific Satoshi valuable is almost its historical

[00:15:28] significance on the blockchain. Like Satoshi's that came out of that first transaction,

[00:15:35] it's almost like they Satoshi touched them. And so he did, it's a real collectible.

[00:15:41] First, I mean, he did. Yeah, that's why they are collectible because he did those were in his wallet.

[00:15:47] Yeah. So like I can see like the same way people collect baseball cards, I could see how

[00:15:52] someone could want to collect if someone loves the history of Bitcoin and everything about Bitcoin,

[00:15:58] there's value there. There's real, you know, and not only is there value there,

[00:16:04] but if you think about, you know, the average Bitcoin holder,

[00:16:07] average Bitcoin holder never really had anything to do with their Bitcoin, right? They had to

[00:16:10] just hold it. And there are obviously a lot of people that definitely got those through not the

[00:16:16] most legal terms and really can't spend them without getting flagged. And now all of a sudden

[00:16:20] there's this whole market that is giving people that are traditionally, you know,

[00:16:24] Bitcoin whales just holding Bitcoin an opportunity to actually put that Bitcoin to work.

[00:16:29] It's because some of these collections that people are buying and selling similarly to the

[00:16:32] NFT boom of 2021 are skyrocketing. You know, for instance,

[00:16:36] I see somebody who just wants to hold on to their Bitcoins forever can say, hey,

[00:16:41] I'll trade you some of these exotic or rare Satoshis for regular, for some amount of money

[00:16:47] that you give me for a thousand regular Satoshis. Exactly. It's like if you were buying,

[00:16:51] you know, a penny that George Washington held, a penny is a penny. It's one cent,

[00:16:55] but because it was George Washington's, maybe you're paying a million dollars for one penny.

[00:17:00] So it's interesting, right? Where you're paying X amount of sats for an individual Satoshi.

[00:17:05] Like remember the wheat pennies? I remember growing up as a kid, you'd always try to collect

[00:17:10] the wheat pennies. Hey, these are worth more or Indian head nickels.

[00:17:15] So immediately I understand as opposed to NFTs, I understand like NFTs gain value in large part

[00:17:22] because of the community that was created around a particular group like the board apes or

[00:17:27] CryptoPunks or whatever. But this is, so that didn't quite make sense to me. But in this,

[00:17:34] here you're saying there are specific Satoshis and coins out there that have value because

[00:17:39] they're historical significance. I buy into that because that's like every collectible market.

[00:17:43] That's a real collectible market. Take a quick break. If you like this episode,

[00:17:51] I'd really, really appreciate it. It means so much to me. Please share it with your friends

[00:17:55] and subscribe to the podcast. Email me at Altatradgemail.com and tell me why you subscribed. Thanks.

[00:18:10] Listening to your favorite podcast? That's smart. Earning your degree online from Southern New

[00:18:15] Hampshire University, that's really smart with 24 seven access to coursework, no set

[00:18:20] class times and dedicated student support. You can go to school when and where it works for

[00:18:25] you. Low online tuition means you can even do it for less and dedicated student support means we'll

[00:18:30] be with you from day one to graduation and beyond. Join a community of learners just like you. Go

[00:18:35] to snhu.edu today to start your free application. When we made our McDonald's spicy chicken

[00:18:41] McNuggets, you will praise hands emoji then we ran out and you were streaming tears emoji.

[00:18:47] Now they're back so you can be grinning face with sweat emoji. Order ahead on the

[00:18:51] McDonald's app and get money mouth face emoji with two orders of crispy, irresistible 10 piece

[00:18:57] McNuggets. Spice your classic for just $6 limited time only prices and participation may vary.

[00:19:04] Cannot be combined with any other offer single item at regular price.

[00:19:13] Now what does it mean now to then

[00:19:16] inscribe and why are some Satoshi's worth more than others and so on?

[00:19:20] For sure. So when Casey created the protocol, he actually defines Satoshi rarity into the

[00:19:27] protocol itself. And these are based on different mining activities. So for instance,

[00:19:32] the most accessible type of rare sat is a uncommon set, which is the first sat that

[00:19:39] is mined in every single block and that happens about every 10 minutes. So what you're able

[00:19:44] to do is those are when those first started being bought and sold or rather traded,

[00:19:49] before there were P2P marketplaces and it was all OTC and discords like spreadsheet days,

[00:19:55] which was very much a thing back in January, February up until March. People are paying

[00:20:02] upwards of $1,500 just for one uncommon sat just because they were so hard to get at the time.

[00:20:08] Now they trade for around 200 bucks, but the prices are usually very volatile. And as you

[00:20:13] inscribe on them, the supply of them is deflationary because once you inscribe on a sat, you can't

[00:20:19] uninscribe it. So it kind of takes it out of circulation. You could modify the inscription

[00:20:25] though, right? You can reinscribe a sat. You can't modify the preexisting one. It's fully

[00:20:30] immutable. So for instance, what I could do is I could have an inscription like a PFP that

[00:20:35] evolves. Like I could have, for instance, pizza ninjas is a really neat project where what

[00:20:40] they do is, you know, they have hit this thing called the sat endpoint, which allows you to take

[00:20:46] your current pizza and inscribe new art on top of it. And then it can display the latest index

[00:20:51] of what's inscribed. So the most recent thing gets displayed to the public as opposed to like

[00:20:55] the first thing that you can do. Okay. So backing up a second. So in this guy, Casey's

[00:21:06] uh, word and all theory, he basically said certain satoshis and bitcoins are worth more than others.

[00:21:14] For instance, the first satoshi that is mined in a particular block is more valuable than

[00:21:21] the third one. Yeah. And I didn't know this, I guess, but satoshis when miners are mining

[00:21:29] are validating a transaction. They mine it one satoshi at a time.

[00:21:33] They're mining a block at a time and a block you are given a reward. For instance, right now,

[00:21:37] you're given 6.25 Bitcoin as reward for mining a block. And then after the having, obviously,

[00:21:43] that's going to be 3.125. So that's an interesting point actually is that at this

[00:21:48] current having there is what's called an epic sat that's going to be mine, which is the

[00:21:52] first sat mine at each having block. And currently there's only three in circulation

[00:21:57] right now. So they're incredibly rare because there's only been three haveings.

[00:22:01] Now there's a fourth and not only is there a fourth, but Casey is launching a new protocol

[00:22:05] called runes, which is essentially enabling for shit coins or meme coins on Bitcoin.

[00:22:12] Is this is the whole idea is to make the world's grandest casino.

[00:22:17] And it gives people the opportunity to deploy their own tokens onto Bitcoin.

[00:22:21] So that's also happening at the having. They can take a block

[00:22:25] and they could say every Satoshi on this block is James coin.

[00:22:30] Well, there is it's a little bit more technical about what happens there.

[00:22:33] What he actually does is you store this data in what's called an opera turn.

[00:22:38] And then you actually store things in the transaction output, but that's getting way too

[00:22:42] technical. But that's how we're out at the having along with an epic sat being

[00:22:48] minded to having and this epic sat is likely going to trade for anywhere between,

[00:22:52] two and a half upwards to $10 million before that exists. To give you an idea of some other

[00:22:59] very expensive ones that have previously sold, there's what's called a rare sat,

[00:23:03] which is the first sat that is mined in each difficulty adjustment period.

[00:23:08] Sat Republic actually brought the first rare sat to auction at Sotheby's

[00:23:12] working at the auction house actually recognized rare sats.

[00:23:15] And we sold that for 2.7 Bitcoin. But what's also really cool is that what's called

[00:23:19] a black sat, which is someone pretty much took the narrative and said, well, why does it have to

[00:23:25] be an uncommon set if it's the first sat that's mine in each block? What about the last sat?

[00:23:30] And those are called black sats. And they've caught a pretty crazy narrative.

[00:23:34] And the community has kind of like really bought into it. And Casey Rodimour gave them

[00:23:37] his blessing of it being cool. And as a result, they're very much a thing.

[00:23:42] And the first ever black rare sat from 2009 actually sold for like four Bitcoin

[00:23:47] in that Sotheby's auction. So people paying real money for this.

[00:23:51] Yeah, so we're talking about things that are going for a quarter million dollars that are

[00:23:56] one 1 millionth of a Bitcoin.

[00:23:58] One 100 millionth.

[00:24:00] Or one 100th million. I always miss that.

[00:24:02] So and we're not even we're not even at the inscriptions yet. We're just talking about

[00:24:08] valuable satoshis that are valuable for historical reasons.

[00:24:13] Yep.

[00:24:14] And so what's the point then? So okay, so there's a market for that.

[00:24:20] The community plus this guy Casey has sort of decided which satoshis are more valuable than

[00:24:27] others. And it sounds like it makes some common sense. Like the first one, the last one,

[00:24:31] palindromes, maybe other unique numbers. I don't know.

[00:24:35] What are inscriptions then on top of this?

[00:24:38] Yeah, so inscriptions is essentially, you know, this whole idea that ordinal is really enabled,

[00:24:43] which is taking advantage of the witness data in a taproot wallet and allowing you to

[00:24:50] essentially store data within the transactions. So if you're a minor, you can store up to a

[00:24:57] four megabyte file on a specific sat. And then if you just do like relay issues on the

[00:25:04] network or relay, I wouldn't say issues, but just like relay permissions on the network,

[00:25:10] you can only do up to 400 kilobytes as like a regular person who's not a minor.

[00:25:14] But you're able to store arbitrary data on an actual sat. So for instance, if I take an image

[00:25:22] and I take like a regular JPEG and I have it under 400 kilobytes, I can store that as

[00:25:29] a whole string of text, the base 64 images, what it's called. And you put that on a sat and then

[00:25:34] through any web browser, you're able to display that just like you could anywhere.

[00:25:39] So that's the plus, but not just images.

[00:25:41] Yeah, so sorry to interrupt. I just want to make an analogy so everybody kind of understands.

[00:25:46] So if I Venmo you a dollar, I have to say what that dollar is for. Like, oh,

[00:25:53] Venmoed Ben because I bought a pizza from him. I have to put that in the Venmo transaction.

[00:25:59] That's like the metadata of this transaction and an inscription is sort of like the metadata.

[00:26:05] I'll give you a better analogy. Sorry to cut you off now. I'll give you a better analogy.

[00:26:15] So the best way that I have found to describe this to people is imagine I gave you a penny

[00:26:22] and traditionally you have Abraham Lincoln on the front and you have the monument on the back.

[00:26:26] Now, let's say I give you this pen and the penny is, you know, let's say it's rare. It's from 1776

[00:26:31] or whatever, right? Let's say that same penny doesn't have Abraham Lincoln on the front and

[00:26:35] it doesn't have the monument. You just have this copper coin from 1776. That's the rare sat.

[00:26:40] You can view the rare sat as a canvas, right? It adds to the narrative of what you're putting

[00:26:44] on it. You then are taking a chisel and you're etching, you know, Abraham Lincoln on the

[00:26:48] top of that penny and you're putting the monument on the back. And that's what an inscription

[00:26:52] is. You're putting data onto the sat. Does that make sense?

[00:26:58] Why do we need inscriptions? Like why isn't just the market for rare or exotic sat interesting by

[00:27:05] itself? Because there's a lot of things that you can do once you're able to store data on the network

[00:27:11] and especially not just the network but the Bitcoin, you know, the most decentralized,

[00:27:14] most secure network in the entire world where as opposed like that's the whole value

[00:27:18] ad here is that you're actually storing data on chain on Bitcoin as opposed to, for instance,

[00:27:24] like a board Ape is stored on IPFS and what's IPFS? It's a bunch of Amazon servers. You know,

[00:27:29] same thing with all the things that's gone or file coin, you know, it's all just distributed,

[00:27:34] you know, servers. This isn't Bitcoin. It's actually stored on every single person who's

[00:27:40] running an ordinal's indexer. It is being stored on their node. So it's fully on chain

[00:27:44] and that's the value ad here. And what's neat is that this doesn't apply to just images, right? I

[00:27:49] can store code. I can store JavaScript. I can store HTML, CSS, any language and I want and I can

[00:27:54] have them all interact with one another within this sandbox of the Bitcoin network. So

[00:28:01] James, you can do a chain program. You could do a book like that and it can never go. It

[00:28:05] will never go away unlike if you were to put a book onto an NFT that was stored in

[00:28:12] Piñata or IPFS. If those companies go out of business, your book is gone.

[00:28:17] Yeah, like a file coin disappears as a coin for whatever reason. Millions of NFTs are gone.

[00:28:27] I mean, those are, I think, stored on IPFS also. Like they're stored somewhere, right? They're

[00:28:31] on some sort of like an Amazon server. But in script, like those are, remember,

[00:28:37] those aren't stored on the coin itself. It would be on like if Ethereum disappeared one day and you

[00:28:43] weren't able to access the smart contracts and you weren't able to see the, if you ever take a look

[00:28:48] at the board APE contract, you see that each board APE has what's called a token URI and that's

[00:28:53] a store token URL and that is just referencing an IPFS address that is pulling in an image or

[00:28:58] pulling in the JSON of the metadata. But like if I wrote a book and inscribed it on one

[00:29:04] Satoshi, then or let's say I took 10 consecutive Satoshis and made a book. Like that's a book.

[00:29:13] And then I guess I could use 100 million Satoshis to print like a million books then. Yeah,

[00:29:20] 10 million books. And so I can make a whole publishing company where books are just

[00:29:26] stored on Satoshis. Sure.

[00:29:30] I mean, you could do that. You could obviously, I mean like, listen,

[00:29:34] you could probably get a book down to like 400 kilobytes for sure. But if you can't, what you

[00:29:39] could do, which is also interesting is you could inscribe each page of a book and then do what's

[00:29:45] called a recursive inscription, right? So what I can do is I can say I inscribe a thousand pages

[00:29:51] of a book and then I have another inscription that says, okay, reference all 1000 of these

[00:29:56] inscriptions and make me with JavaScript a fun animating flip book. And I can just take those

[00:30:01] images in and then fully on chain, you have like an animated, you know, book that's pulling

[00:30:07] in the previous pages. And what's cool also is that people can own a page of the book, right?

[00:30:11] So it's like, if you wanted to like, like be an interesting idea in case you wanted to

[00:30:16] sell a book instead of people buying a copy of the book, you minted out people can own

[00:30:20] individual page, you can actually own the page of the book. And then you're actually

[00:30:24] distributed this other, you know, inscription, which allows you to render the entire book.

[00:30:29] That's just an idea I came up with off the top of my head. But like it's something you could do.

[00:30:33] You know, I haven't seen anyone do it. Let's say Warren Buffett was gonna,

[00:30:38] not that he was interested in Satoshi's or Bitcoins at all, but let's say Warren Buffett

[00:30:42] was going to put a stock pick on a Satoshi and auctioned it off. That's potentially

[00:30:48] something that could be valuable for instance. Sure. And it's, and it's something that's

[00:30:52] Warren Buffett says this is it. Yeah, I mean, if listen, if Warren Buffett actually came out and

[00:30:58] said something positive about crypto, that'd be one thing. If he actually came out and said

[00:31:02] that, you know, he inscribed his pick on a Sat. Yeah. I mean, like that's provenance right there.

[00:31:09] I'm just thinking what's the use case? Like right now, right? I see there's artistic use

[00:31:13] case like, okay, we're going to get this historical Satoshi's from these historical

[00:31:18] Bitcoin transactions. We're going to make some image on it to give it a little bit more artistic value

[00:31:23] and now we're going to sell it. What are, what are some other things that could happen with?

[00:31:28] Honestly, when we looked at NFTs like with birth certificates, college graduations,

[00:31:35] high school diplomas work much better on a Sat because they're all unchained and you don't

[00:31:41] have to deal with Amazon web server going down and all of a sudden I don't have access to

[00:31:46] my data anymore. Right. And it seems like it's less friction to find. I mean,

[00:31:52] it could be in your Bitcoin wallet. Yep. Very simple. Sorry. I know you had some other ideas too.

[00:32:00] It's what I would say is it's a more true form of an NFT because of its immutable profit on

[00:32:08] some of the Bitcoin network and the truth of matters is Ethereum going to be around forever.

[00:32:13] Probably, like Ethereum is obviously an incredible smart contract platform that being said,

[00:32:20] there's base, there's Arbitrum, there's optimism, there's all these L2s, there's Solana,

[00:32:25] there's Sui, whatever the hell there is. And I have no idea what the hell is going to last in

[00:32:28] the next 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years, but I definitely can assure you that Bitcoin will be here.

[00:32:34] And that's why it just makes most sense if you're going to store something on chain and might

[00:32:37] as well be on the most decentralized, most secure network in the world, which is the king of

[00:32:42] all cryptocurrencies. What's neat in terms of like an everyday use case and more than just

[00:32:48] inscribing images is back to things you can do with code, for instance,

[00:32:53] long form generative art has been really having an interesting moment as well because what you're

[00:32:57] able to do is that people have inscribed, for instance, the P5JS framework on an individual

[00:33:03] Satoshi. What you're able to do is as an artist, you're able to code your generative art and

[00:33:08] reference that P5JS inscription the same way if you are writing code on your computer and importing

[00:33:14] P5.js from a library, you're importing it the same exact way, but it's all on the Bitcoin network.

[00:33:21] So it's not hitting any external sources. And you can do really neat things like you can reveal

[00:33:26] the art or have the seed to that generative art be a specific block and have a delayed reveal,

[00:33:31] for instance. So let's say we're mending at block 840,000, which is the having, I can

[00:33:37] make it so if maybe I have a collection of 100, one is going to reveal at 840,000 and one, 840,000

[00:33:44] and two and a fully on chain delayed reveal with the block itself being the seed, which is

[00:33:50] like I think really, really cool. There's other use cases as well. People are making

[00:33:55] MIDI systems so you can generate music on chain. I mean, like at the tip of the iceberg

[00:34:00] right now, this has only been around a year. And so what do you see? Let's say someone's

[00:34:06] listening to this doesn't quite understand everything you're saying. How can they think

[00:34:12] about this in terms of like, I want to get involved early in this because I didn't with NFTs

[00:34:18] and what's something creative they could do? What are creative? How are you making money right

[00:34:23] now with this other than your company? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Yeah,

[00:34:30] obviously, like we've definitely generated revenue building sat scribe, which was the

[00:34:35] first insert from platform for rare and exotic sats. You know, obviously there's tons now, but

[00:34:39] this was back in June when we launched it. Obviously, pizza artifacts do well and we have

[00:34:45] this new platform that we're rolling out. So with pizza ones, you took rare sets like the

[00:34:52] first set from one of the 10,000, you know, exotic, exotic, exotic sets.

[00:35:00] Okay, you took an exotic sets from the 10,000 bitcoins. You inscribed something that made

[00:35:07] whoever sees this inscription aware that, hey, this is a Satoshi. This is an exotic set

[00:35:13] from one of the bitcoins from the very first pizza transaction. And what are

[00:35:18] one of those Satoshi's worth right now? So yeah, yeah, so a pizza artifact,

[00:35:23] they've actually done very well. So when we launched those in June,

[00:35:28] those was a June 2023, we launched those for 0.01 Bitcoin and at the time, Bitcoin was $25,000.

[00:35:36] So it's like 250 bucks. And now Bitcoin is $70,000 and they're trading actively for 0.135

[00:35:43] Bitcoin. So around $10,000 US, 9500. So they've gone up in value and Bitcoin's gone up in value.

[00:35:52] And there's only 222 of them as well.

[00:35:58] Why 222? Why did you pick that number?

[00:36:00] Sorry.

[00:36:02] That is a very good question. It had to do so it's really interesting. So it was partially like we

[00:36:09] wanted like a phone number like 222 and like the 21 million is obviously a significant number

[00:36:15] when it comes to Bitcoin, but like having like 210 felt weird. But the truth of the matter is

[00:36:22] a lot of it was like, how do we have a big enough community that also feels kind of tightly knit

[00:36:27] that we can curate the specific holders that we'd like to be on for this journey with us?

[00:36:30] But at the same time, just so you understand, like it is not cheap to do these inscriptions

[00:36:35] on Bitcoin. So when we first launched this, it was like a massive risk where it was like,

[00:36:40] if we don't sell out right now, we just spent 0.35 Bitcoin inscribing this,

[00:36:44] which is a lot of money for a founder to just put up and potentially lose. It's like $20,000 at the time.

[00:36:52] So or a little bit 0.35, what was that like 12,000 15,000 whatever, a substantial amount of money

[00:37:00] that to put up, a substantial amount of money to put up to maybe not mint out.

[00:37:07] Obviously we did mint out pretty quickly. It only took a couple of hours

[00:37:11] because obviously launching out in tandem with Satscribe.

[00:37:16] But there's a lot of risk like if you're doing a project and there's 5,000 unique inscriptions on

[00:37:22] here, I mean now with recursive inscriptions, there are different ways to try to bring that cost

[00:37:26] down, but you're spending a lot of money. For instance, Leonidas, who is a big Ordinals influencer

[00:37:32] launched this thing called Roonstone, which is the largest, fairest community airdrop

[00:37:39] within the Ordinals world. Like 113,000 people were airdropped these.

[00:37:44] And the way that it happened was that he took a snapshot of any wallet that had up to three

[00:37:49] inscriptions that weren't text files at a certain block height. And those were considered OGs within

[00:37:54] the space. And then he partnered up with a miner, he partnered up with Ordinals, he partnered

[00:37:59] up with a bunch of different people in the community that donated up to 8 Bitcoin, I

[00:38:03] believe it was, to do all this. So to inscribe 113,000 things costing 8,000, that's a lot of money.

[00:38:12] So it's like a big risk right now if you're... Well, it's a big risk as a founder, but the nice thing

[00:38:17] is because now there's some platforms that allow you to do pay as you go kind of mince,

[00:38:23] but for the most part, if you want to be on the Magic Eat and Launchpad,

[00:38:27] you need to inscribe it yourself, which means that you as a founder need to put your own

[00:38:31] money where your mouth is, which kind of filters out the grifters and the people that aren't serious

[00:38:35] about actually building out what they're building out. For me to put up, me and my co-founders

[00:38:41] put up like $15,000 to maybe it turned into nothing. It's a big gamble.

[00:38:47] Well, how do you build a community to support that you know will kind of buy out your project?

[00:38:52] That is a very good question. So a lot of it has been like just like years of being my co-founder,

[00:39:03] being in the space and just like being like everyone else. We've been degenerates,

[00:39:08] and our non-Web3 lives were builders, like I'm a software engineer for 15 years.

[00:39:12] My co-founder was a former software engineer also built like early DeFi analytics software.

[00:39:19] And both of us were kind of just sitting here and like you become friends with a lot of people in the

[00:39:25] communities that you're trading with all the time. I mean, a ton of different group chats,

[00:39:28] we're all on Twitter spaces all the time. It's hilarious. It's like this whole community of

[00:39:32] people that like I literally speak to more than I speak to my everyday IRL friends, but I speak

[00:39:37] to them all day every day on Twitter, you know? And it's like you almost feel like you

[00:39:40] know these people and you just sit on these Twitter spaces long enough and all of a sudden

[00:39:46] you have a following and you're like I said, you're trading together and it's like, listen,

[00:39:50] I'm building something and everyone's kind of just like down to support because you know,

[00:39:54] I've posted pretty good calls that you know we've made money. I've obviously posted some

[00:39:59] that happened but like you know, like everyone's kind of feeding off of each other and everyone's

[00:40:03] just down to support one another and also I don't know I've been here since January,

[00:40:08] like literally since these were a thing and there's a very small community of founders

[00:40:15] that came from that time period and we all know each other and we're all like

[00:40:19] pretty good friends with each other at this point. So it's like we're all down to support

[00:40:23] and help one another out. Like it's a very interesting thing about this community is that

[00:40:28] everyone here is really down to support one another you know? Like if I have like

[00:40:33] pretty much I could tell you any founder that I've interacted with in the past,

[00:40:36] they tell me something's minting, I'm minting it, you know? Like anything to support them

[00:40:39] because they've done the same. And because I've seen them here for a full year grinding.

[00:40:46] Music

[00:40:58] When we made our McDonald's spicy chicken McNuggets, you will praise hands emoji.

[00:41:03] Then we ran out and you were screaming tears emoji. Now they're back so you can be grinning

[00:41:08] face with sweat emoji. Order ahead on the McDonald's app and get money mouth face emoji

[00:41:13] with two orders of crispy irresistible 10 piece McNuggets. Spice your classic for just $6.

[00:41:20] Limited time only prices and participation may vary cannot be combined with any other offer

[00:41:25] single item at regular price. Listening to your favorite podcast? That's smart. Earning your

[00:41:33] degree online from Southern New Hampshire University, that's really smart. With 24 7 access to

[00:41:39] coursework, no set class times and dedicated student support, you can go to school when and

[00:41:44] where it works for you. Low online tuition means you can even do it for less and dedicated student

[00:41:49] support means we'll be with you from day one to graduation and beyond. Join a community of

[00:41:54] learners just like you. Go to snhu.edu today to start your free application.

[00:42:01] And so there are some again there's tons of satoshis or not tons but there are these

[00:42:07] exotic satoshis that have let's call it some intrinsic value regardless of who's selling it.

[00:42:13] Then there's inscriptions on rare satoshis or exotic satoshis of, you know, various bitcoins

[00:42:25] and it's the art plus the historical transaction aspect that give it extra value plus the

[00:42:33] yeah the community around the founder of it. And then what do you think is the next generation

[00:42:38] that like again how's the everyday person going to get involved? How's this going to break out of

[00:42:43] the close knit community? It's a great question also and this is one that I think a lot of people

[00:42:51] are spending a lot of time solving. It's something that I think about often. I think

[00:42:56] that the way that you do it is you need to have products that are seamless to use for

[00:43:02] this is the test that I use. If my mother can use it, I know it's good for the public to use it.

[00:43:07] You know, my mom was like 64 years old. She probably would hate me saying that on a podcast

[00:43:12] right now. No, no, I agree with you completely. I think that's the litmus test for crypto in

[00:43:17] general by the way. It's 64 year old which no one listens to. Right but it's better now.

[00:43:24] I'll tell you having this conversation in like let's say 2017 or 2016, I felt the Bitcoin community

[00:43:31] didn't want 64 year olds to use it. Like everybody was quote unquote hotaling. They had their own

[00:43:36] language and if you didn't speak, it's like internet users in 1993 when AOL opened up

[00:43:43] internet news groups to their members. Everybody, all the academics on the internet were very

[00:43:49] upset and I feel crypto has morphed now into people understand that you need wide use of a

[00:43:56] currency in order for it to be used. It needs to be simple to use. Well, I think that this is

[00:44:03] one of those aha moments where a lot of builders like myself are having where it's like okay,

[00:44:07] this is finally another opportunity to really start over again, really bring Bitcoin to the

[00:44:13] masses. How do we do it? Oh, no one really understood buying and holding but now if

[00:44:18] I tell you there is like really serious collecting of art that you can be doing on here and not just

[00:44:23] art but like so many other use cases, membership to clubs, like Tim was saying,

[00:44:29] different certificates and things like that. Now that there is actually a use case

[00:44:34] of an opportunity to actually put your Bitcoin to work, you have these moments where it's like

[00:44:39] okay well how are we going to make it super easy to do that? For instance, like I said,

[00:44:44] I've been building mobile apps for the past 15 years. That's kind of like my bread and butter.

[00:44:48] Make the kind of dumbing down hard to understand concepts and making them a little bit more palatable

[00:44:55] and that's what I'm focusing on right now is building very strictly mobile first infrastructure.

[00:45:00] Everyone goes to the web and everyone likes to do like a Google Chrome extension or a website.

[00:45:05] The truth of the matter is everyone's on their phone and even most 64 year olds know how to use

[00:45:09] an iPhone these days because you can't even park your damn car without scanning a QR code from

[00:45:13] an iPhone app. Apps are everywhere so you might as well have a very easy to use app that allows you

[00:45:19] to very quickly for instance trade your runes, collect your airsats, see what your portfolio is

[00:45:24] worth the same exact way that you could download Fidelity and do it there. That's what my focus

[00:45:31] is on right now is how do I make it super easy for the everyday collector to get involved?

[00:45:36] And the big argument against NFTs was just that, hey this is just a JPEG. How come I can't just

[00:45:44] cut and paste this into a file and print it up and put it on my wall?

[00:45:48] But this solves that problem because these are Satoshi's that are verifiably part of some

[00:45:54] important historical thing like the first Satoshi mind after that having or whatever.

[00:46:01] Listen, the truth of the matter is you could still right click save an image.

[00:46:07] You could still right click and save the image but at the end of the day

[00:46:12] you right click saving an image and not having the wallet or not owning the private key to that

[00:46:16] wallet. You don't own it. It's the same kind of idea as NFTs so I don't think it's much

[00:46:20] different in that regard where right click save movement is still a thing. But I think

[00:46:24] that if you take a look at where the world's going right now you see the Quest 3,

[00:46:28] you have the Vision Pro, you see a full world where we're going to be living in this AR, VR kind

[00:46:35] of mixed reality and eventually that's going to gravitate to like a Google Glass which was

[00:46:39] a little bit premature for its time where you're able to actually see. I could walk down the

[00:46:44] street and see digital ads on a building the same way if I'm watching a hockey game I can see

[00:46:50] the digital ads around the boards. We're about to be living and especially with Neuralink

[00:46:55] these things sound crazy except for the fact that you're seeing a guy with Srebo Pauls he's

[00:47:00] playing chess with his mind from Neuralink's latest video and then you realize very quickly,

[00:47:06] oh shit I don't know if I'm allowed to say that on this but this is where we're going.

[00:47:11] We are going to a digital first world and owning something in the digital. If you ask

[00:47:18] a kid right now what would you rather do? Would you rather own something in the physical world

[00:47:21] or buy something in Roblox? I'd rather buy something in Roblox.

[00:47:27] Right but the difference with the NFTs and the inscriptions is that literally the canvas

[00:47:36] you own it on, an inscription on has value because that canvas is a very particular Satoshi

[00:47:43] in each case whereas the NFTs- That's true. I mean like that's a fun thing they're never

[00:47:48] going to zero. As Bitcoin goes up the value of a Sat goes up right? That's just the way that

[00:47:54] it works so technically unless Bitcoin goes to zero they're not going to zero.

[00:47:58] And the value of these rare sats go up more. Right so I'm just wondering like what's the range

[00:48:03] of creativity? Like I bet you there's going to be an opportunity where some artist or somebody

[00:48:08] who's creative in some other way is going to come up with an idea of inscribing that's

[00:48:13] going to have value outside of kind of the crypto Twitter community where everybody knows each other.

[00:48:20] I feel like there's going to be a growth point here that didn't happen with NFTs.

[00:48:26] It's so early that it's much more possible also you have the learning curve from the NFTs.

[00:48:32] You can see where a lot of projects went wrong, where some projects went right.

[00:48:38] The other thing in order to support some of these early movers is we're seeing a lot of

[00:48:44] airdrops in order to reward early adopters of ordinals, the upcoming ruins,

[00:48:53] exotic sats, rare sats on common sats. So we are seeing like the early project

[00:49:02] founders saying look if you've supported me or if you just supported the community

[00:49:07] I'm going to reward you just to keep the community growing. We saw that a little bit in NFTs but not

[00:49:14] very much. It was very much this community is closed and this community is closed and this

[00:49:20] community is closed and you got to buy this in order to be part of our club. With ordinals we

[00:49:26] haven't seen that especially with runes coming up, we haven't seen that. If you're here,

[00:49:31] here, here, here we're going to reward you. Rune stone which there were guys in some of my

[00:49:37] communities that got dropped runes stone and we weren't super active in ordinals but we did

[00:49:45] inscribe some ordinals very early, sub 445,000 inscriptions now we're like 70 million. So it

[00:49:52] was very early. Those guys got an airdrop. That airdrop now is worth like $7,000 or

[00:49:58] $8,000. What is it? They're trading for like 0.09 Bitcoin right now.

[00:50:04] Per Satoshi? This runes stone. That was just for doing three inscriptions and I think they spent

[00:50:10] $90 to do three inscriptions and now they have an asset that's valued at over $7,000,

[00:50:17] $6,000. Obviously the value has changed and they're in line to receive some

[00:50:22] upcoming additional airdrops it looks like. So this community is very supportive,

[00:50:27] very different than NFTs. I went on this site OrtaScan and it says basically there's like

[00:50:35] 68 million inscriptions. Who are the 68 million people or not people obviously people are doing

[00:50:43] more than one inscription but like who actually I'm looking at. Yeah so a lot of these inscriptions

[00:50:49] I don't know. If you're looking we are defined like as an actual collection if you search

[00:50:56] pizza artifacts on OrtaScan or on Magicated. It's PIZA. No, no, no this is PIZA.

[00:51:03] We know what pizza artifacts, PIZA. We spelled pizza the right way.

[00:51:10] These people are trying to just make money off your maybe. That's basically what it is

[00:51:15] is you have some of these, Providence is a big deal in Bitcoin lore and Bitcoin history and so

[00:51:23] like what drew me to pizza artifacts is it was the first organized product that

[00:51:28] project that minted on pizza sats. And so now you know I own one of the pieces that is

[00:51:35] a Genesis collection on pizza sats. Any other ones coming on pizza sats are going to be

[00:51:42] second third and on down the line. And we know from everything that goes on in collectibles

[00:51:48] and in history being first matters and being first has a value. So it can be an idea like the first

[00:51:57] Ordinal's collection period which is sub 1000 inscriptions again where it's 70 million out

[00:52:03] sub 1000. They have a floor of like two and a half Bitcoin and actively going for like two

[00:52:09] and a half to like five Bitcoin. And so like who's the, who is buying and selling? Is it just

[00:52:17] crypto people or has it again you mentioned Sotheby's has been auctioning off some of these

[00:52:23] rare sats like how does the growth look to you? I think that we are in such a bubble right

[00:52:31] now where everyone is so bullish within this little Bitcoin bubble and it hasn't even had

[00:52:37] the opportunity to like explode into like what it's going to be. Like we are very much in an echo

[00:52:44] chamber where everyone is like all bullish altogether right now but it is such a small

[00:52:48] knit community right now. Like compared to what we saw with NFTs compared to like the entire

[00:52:53] world of people that were Bitcoin maxis and you know never gave Ethereum or any other network

[00:52:58] decide the time of day. You know you're seeing like the most OG builders you know builds

[00:53:04] on Bitcoin like on Ormals right now. Like the Taproot Wizards is a very notable project where

[00:53:09] you have Udi Wertheimer and you have people like Jameson Law, you know like Hal Finney who

[00:53:14] you know literally received those first 50 Bitcoin from Satoshi Nakamoto doesn't follow

[00:53:18] many people. Jameson is one of them. Like this is like some of the most OG people in this

[00:53:23] space are finally super excited to be building on Bitcoin again. So if someone wanted to view

[00:53:30] like Satoshi's and maybe buy some where can they look? Like listeners are probably just still curious

[00:53:36] like what's going on here. Where can they look to see some Satoshi's learn some more about it. Maybe

[00:53:42] maybe buy some and when you buy some again it's you just put it in your Bitcoin while with your

[00:53:46] Bitcoins. Yeah exactly so I mean there's a bunch of tools now that make it super easy. You

[00:53:52] know obviously we built SatScribe that allows you to just click what type of rare Satoshi

[00:53:56] you want. You can either buy them individually or you can Scribe on them another great marketplace

[00:54:01] where you can kind of do like a P2P trading kind of like an open sea from NFTs but for rare Sats

[00:54:07] Magisat is a great one. MagicEden is another great one. Luminex is a great platform for doing

[00:54:13] parent child provenance which is something we didn't even get a chance to talk about but

[00:54:17] long story short you know a board Ape is a board Ape because it's attached to the

[00:54:20] board Ape contract which you're able to do on Bitcoin is if you're an artist or a founder

[00:54:24] or whatever you can inscribe what's called a parent inscription and then have children inscriptions

[00:54:30] that on chain connect to the parent so you can actually see the whole family tree on chain

[00:54:35] which is as true of provenance as it gets. Yeah there's I would say those four places SatScribe

[00:54:44] Magisat, MagicEden, OrdeeScan is a great place or .io is a great explorer as well.

[00:54:50] Xvers wallet is probably the most popular wallet right now to use. They support RareSats.

[00:54:57] MagicEden wallet is a really good one too that they've rolled out. Those are like the main two

[00:55:03] that I would say are really dominating the market right now. There are other ones like Leather

[00:55:07] Wallet, Unisat, OKX has a wallet too but I would say my recommendation if you want to get your

[00:55:14] hands dirty very quickly without having any issues because Xvers supports RareSats not all

[00:55:19] wallets do so does MagicEden. They support inscriptions, they support separating your wallet

[00:55:25] into Bitcoin like an actual payment address versus a Ordinals or Roons or RareSat address

[00:55:33] Xvers I would say is way to go or MagicEden. I think that answers my next question which is

[00:55:37] how do you know when you have some Satoshis in your wallet and you're spending some money

[00:55:42] you're not just spending one of these like incredibly valuable Satoshis. You want that

[00:55:46] wallet that splits it for you. Exactly which Xvers and MagicEden do that. Yep, exactly.

[00:55:54] So right now I could basically go to some marketplace buy a RareSatoshi spend a little bit

[00:56:00] of money inscribing it and then saying hey I have this inscribed Satoshi that I made

[00:56:07] does anyone want to buy it? I could put it on some marketplace and see if there's a market

[00:56:12] for it. Yes or you could just buy the RareSat or XaliSat not inscribe it and just hold it

[00:56:20] and let other people inscribe it. Exactly because they're deflationary right so the more people that

[00:56:26] inscribe them the more sequestered or rather the more inscribed they are the less there are in

[00:56:30] circulation. You know like one of the places that I've made is I have a bag of uninscribed

[00:56:40] unconfined Sats. I have a bag of uninscribed Block9 450Xs which maybe I'll do something with them in

[00:56:46] the future but for right now I'm just holding them as virgin Sats so to speak. So like a bucket of

[00:56:53] let's say a year ago you bought a bucket of RareSats or or exotic Sats or whatever what would

[00:57:00] how much has it gone up percentage wise in the past year like just RareSats? It depends

[00:57:07] it depends. Yeah no it depends for sure it depends on when you bought them obviously because it's

[00:57:13] insanely volatile. I would say you know if you bought them at around 75 to 130 bucks right now

[00:57:21] you're you know even give or take the day but there is a time period where commoners which was

[00:57:26] the first ever collection inscribed on UncommonSats took 10,000 UncommonSat of circulation and

[00:57:31] the price ran up from $130 to $800 in about an hour you know so like there are different

[00:57:38] catalysts that I would say change the volatility of that right now it's also like I was saying in

[00:57:43] the beginning of the podcast that it was significantly harder to acquire them which

[00:57:48] when they were more expensive versus now where we have peer-to-peer marketplace like I just had

[00:57:52] a Magic Eden where you can very easily buy and sell these and the free market has dictated

[00:57:57] the price so if you bought at the top you're definitely down right now but this is very much

[00:58:03] like a long-term play. But also again the average person even involved in crypto doesn't know anything

[00:58:10] about this even though it might be common in your community I can tell you like I'm

[00:58:15] I involved in crypto every day and I don't really know that much about the whole orinal

[00:58:21] world and so if this becomes a thing which it is already I mean there's 70 million of these

[00:58:26] inscribed but if this becomes a thing where people know it the way they know NFTs then these rare sats

[00:58:33] that are worthy of inscription will go up in value. I mean that's my bet. Nothing is obviously

[00:58:40] guaranteed. Right. What projects are you working on now with with these inscriptions like what's

[00:58:48] type of project you're working on? Yeah so the most recent one we actually have it launching on

[00:58:55] April 15th on the Magic Eden launchpad is called Runevo which is a pre-ruins ordinal's collection

[00:59:02] so what you'll be able to do is pizza artifacts are getting an allocation to this and people

[00:59:08] are able to mint them and they're able to collect this as an ordinal before the halving

[00:59:13] and then holding that we're rolling out two massive mobile first infrastructure platforms

[00:59:20] that can't talk about just yet only because we're launching them at the halving which is

[00:59:26] give or take April 18th of the 20th we'll see but what I can say is that pizza artifacts and

[00:59:31] Runevo owning those will have a lot of utility within using those platforms you'll be able

[00:59:37] to generate a lot of points for doing transactions. Is it related to the halving? Yeah it's very important

[00:59:44] yeah it is so Rune's the protocol that enables this whole casino of meme tokens and utility

[00:59:50] tokens on bitcoin is going live at block 840 000 which is the halving block in case you're

[00:59:56] out of more inscribed or pre-mined the first ever ruins which is going to be called uncommon

[01:00:02] dot goods and it'll be interesting to see you know who ends up getting the first halving block

[01:00:08] because that'll dictate you know like the first 1000 names and what they are aside from you know

[01:00:13] uncommon goods but everything happens at the halving the epic sack gets mined at the halving

[01:00:17] ruins goes live at the halving so that's kind of like why the date is the date

[01:00:22] and is it just some lucky miner who's going to end up with the epic sat at the halving?

[01:00:28] It's it is a lucky miner for sure and there is definitely a lot of people that are competing

[01:00:34] to become said lucky miner right now and there are a lot of people bribing miners right now

[01:00:41] to be included in that block and actually get the first 1000 ruins and I can tell you I'm talking

[01:00:46] like bribes of 20 bitcoin you know like real bribes um but even with that bribe there's

[01:00:53] still only like a 15 percent chance that you get it but it isn't bad there's a chance um obviously

[01:01:00] the odds aren't in your favor but they're not bad you know 15 percent but that's very much

[01:01:04] what's happening right now well it seems like there's an expected value there though much higher

[01:01:09] than 15 bitcoin if you're talking about millions of dollars for an epic sat yeah also I am five

[01:01:18] minutes over at the five o'clock that only two so I don't know how we're supposed to do this

[01:01:22] abruptly if you want to do like an end no no I'm going to keep talking to Tim here so Ben thank you

[01:01:27] so much all right yourself out good luck on your projects I'm gonna maybe buy some I don't know

[01:01:34] and uh thanks so much man thanks for answering my questions I know I asked a ton of dumb

[01:01:40] questions so I appreciate you answering

[01:01:57] when we made our mcdonald's spicy chicken mcnuggets you will praise hands emoji then we ran out

[01:02:02] and you were streaming tears emoji now they're back so you can be grinning face with sweat emoji

[01:02:08] order ahead on the mcdonald's app and get money mouth face emoji with two orders of crispy

[01:02:14] irresistible 10 piece mcnuggets spicy or classic for just six dollars limited time only prices and

[01:02:20] participation may vary cannot be combined with any other offer single item at regular price

[01:02:28] listening to your favorite podcast that's smart earning your degree online from southern

[01:02:33] New Hampshire university that's really smart with 24 7 access to coursework no set class times

[01:02:39] and dedicated student support you can go to school when and where it works for you low online tuition

[01:02:45] means you can even do it for less and dedicated student support means we'll be with you from

[01:02:49] day one to graduation and beyond join a community of learners just like you go to snhu.edu today

[01:02:55] to start your free application