The Making of a Legend: How a Criminal Became a Champion | Frank Shamrock

[00:00:06] What's it like to tell the MMA mixed martial arts champion of the world that Basically you want to fight him and destroy him well I'm about to find out in this episode, but even more importantly

[00:00:21] One of the most important concepts I wrote about in my book Skip the Line was this technique I always use when I want to learn something very fast and It's a great technique. It works

[00:00:33] Phenomenally well, and it's I call it plus minus equals the idea is if you want to learn something Let's say you want to get better at tennis or you want to get better at physics

[00:00:44] You find a plus someone who could teach you or coach you or whatever someone who's vastly superior in knowledge and ability You find a minus someone and this is not a negative thing

[00:00:56] But you find someone you could teach because as Albert Einstein said you don't truly understand something Unless you can explain it simply to another person and then you find equals and that's people who are on the same path and journey of improvement as you

[00:01:12] And we're roughly around the same level and you kind of learn with each other or compete with each other or exchange notes with each other And I find this a useful tool not only of course in sports or educational learning, but in business like when I first

[00:01:27] The very first time I became an entrepreneur I was I had a company that made websites for other companies and very quickly I got to know the CEOs and founders of the other companies

[00:01:39] Particularly in New York City that were doing the same thing and we would run into each other all the time We're running into each other going in and out of clients offices while we were competing for business We would run into each other parties

[00:01:49] We would call each other up and have lunch or dinner sometimes just to compare notes And even though we were enemies in some sense we were competing against each other We were all growing together and it's it's to this day

[00:02:03] More than 25 years later. I still keep in touch with these people and and it's my network that has helped me considerably over over the years And so in any case These were my equals I I wish in business That I initially had more of a plus

[00:02:18] I didn't know this concept then and I think I made a lot of mistakes That cost me a lot of money because I didn't have a plus in Business at first and or investing at first, but I did have equals and I did have a minus

[00:02:31] I definitely always made it a point to work with my Employees and other people and kind of give back where I could and help people where I could But again, it took me a long time to realize how important the plus was as well

[00:02:46] And now whenever I start learning something boom The first thing I do is look for plus minus equal now Why did I start this idea? Well, I didn't I take complete credit for it though but the actual guy who told me about this idea was

[00:03:04] The former mixed martial arts champion of the world Frank Sharma because as you could imagine He had to learn very quickly often very Completely different martial arts. Well, anyway, he had a rough background a rough story. He's a great guy here He is

[00:03:25] This isn't your average business podcast and he's not your average host. This is the James Altiger show Frank Shamrock Welcome to the podcast. Thank you living legend You kind of started the sport of MMA you and your brother Ken

[00:03:51] I feel really were like legends who start who started, you know Ultimate fighting MMA you really brought it to the public's attention. I'm sure it was around But it wasn't popular in the early mid 90s and then you were like a legend in this space

[00:04:05] You're winning every title. I mean, huh? Are you going down the list of titles? How many titles did you win? You were oh, I can't win them all yeah Middleweight yeah, light heavyweight this that you basically like crushed everyone and

[00:04:17] And you did it in such a way that was very unique to you I mean, I want to get to kind of your past present and future But just the way you won you combined so many disciplines to kind of make your own style of

[00:04:31] Martial art basically that would help you, you know, people probably had a hard time preparing for you Because they didn't know which discipline you would you know yield against them. You could kickbox them You could like strangle them whatever whatever it was you were doing

[00:04:46] There was I don't know how somebody would have prepared for you Not that I'm a fighter that prepares to fight for fighters But how would somebody how should someone have prepared for you and then there's a lot more to discuss like like gel and tensions

[00:04:59] All these things and then and then I also have a confession for you. But but how would someone prepare for you? Well, I was the first super athlete and I was the first well-rounded fighter So I feel that there's not a lot of humility

[00:05:15] You know it just happened to be that throughout that study I became that guy so But it was it was out of necessity like I didn't want to fight You know, I mean like I wasn't into hurting people but I didn't want to get hurt

[00:05:27] so, you know, I Took a very scholastic and a very, you know street survival approach to learning martial arts Because to me like I was fighting professionally, but I was trying not to get killed like I was trying not to get hurt

[00:05:40] So to me like the whole system was What Bruce Lee talked about do the most amount of damage with the least amount of effort and the least amount of damage done to yourself

[00:05:48] Wait, so do the most amount of damage with the least amount of effort and the least amount of damage done to yourself And one of the arts that you did study and train for in order to become this all around

[00:05:59] You know mixed martial arts or ultimate fighting champion was jeet kune Doe which was Bruce Lee's yeah art form What makes I feel like was that a real martial art or was it just something that he kind of had developed and popularized? Like was that?

[00:06:14] You know something real it was real in that on his journey he He you know created it so it was as real as he could contact and commit to and

[00:06:26] You know what I mean being who he was I went on the same journey except where I went into a cage and fought you know Bruce didn't have to fight he got to use in theory and create a system that was mainly theoretical

[00:06:40] The techniques were fantastic and the techniques have been proven to work Like what's an example technique that was sort of new to Bruce Lee that you've been able to use successfully But wasn't really used before Bruce Lee

[00:06:52] The eye is off on a tangent. I'm just curious the idea of You know straight blasting the idea of you know connecting straight lines. I don't know what is he striking You know you see movies in these big wide circular crazy, but like you know haymaker punches

[00:07:10] You know the shortest path is a straight line So, you know this a lot of the you know all the martial arts come from somewhere They're made for some reason the some issue of greater martial art kick guys off horses

[00:07:21] You know his was just a personal study. He was on this this journey like I was to learn about fighting What is fighting? What is it? You know I'm studying martial arts. What is it really?

[00:07:31] And what he found out in the basis of Jeet Kune Do is use whatever works and So I just took from him the philosophies because the technical parts we had already progressed further

[00:07:43] You know there was already better ways to maximize your body, you know more power that can be gained So I took from him all the philosophies and stuff and all the ideas

[00:07:52] Because I didn't have a base. I didn't have a martial art. So, you know when you say how do we beat him? There was no way to beat me because there was no base My base was whatever was needed to win because I've seen it

[00:08:04] I've seen a bunch of your fights and like some some of these guys They're like they're brutal They want to come at you and just like crush you to the ground and the way you fight them would be different than other people

[00:08:15] Some people you're like restraining and then once they're restrained Then you you do what you need to do to beat them other people You've got a kickbox other people you've got you do all sorts of techniques to win so it's

[00:08:29] I mean would you say that's your school or your brand of fighting? Yeah, my my My style or what I presented was what Bruce Lee talked about. How do you do it the quickest most efficient most effective way without hurting yourself? I like the Bruce Lee quote. I

[00:08:47] fear more the man who's Studied one kick ten thousand times than ten thousand kicks one time Yeah, so just that idea of like repetition and really learning one thing

[00:09:00] Better than anyone else in the world and then maybe going on to the next thing but making sure you you learn that one thing first Yeah And the biggest thing that I took from from Bruce Lee was the philosophies the ideas and the theories

[00:09:12] And what they allowed me to do was to take you know, he was on a life journey that included all these studies This style is his studies. I was able to take

[00:09:21] You know all the philosophies the ideas the theories the understanding of the biomechanics in the human body that he studied and take newer information Newer technologies and just enhance it like like what's an example? Just punching footwork structural positions, you know, he was not a super athlete

[00:09:39] So he didn't have those mechanics in his body. So, you know, I became a 200 pound super athlete So, okay, just my background we're gonna kind of go all over the place

[00:09:49] You were as a teenager to the age of 21 you're in jail for like three and a half years, right? Yep So you must have gotten the shake-hicked out of you quite a bit in jail or you must or maybe not

[00:10:00] Maybe you were in a lot of fights, but but but you had the least amount of damage so you couldn't inflict the most I mean where maybe that's how you learned to focus on that philosophy

[00:10:09] Well, I'd be afraid to go to jail at that age to get beating up Yeah, it was intimidating but you know like the streets jail is very much a you have to fight

[00:10:20] You know if someone you know attempts to take your stuff or pressure you or you know take advantage of you Like you are obligated to fight both for yourself and then for your own race because if you don't fight

[00:10:30] Then your own race will come take your stuff. Hmm because you didn't stand up I see so you have to fight and then at that point you have no friends

[00:10:38] And then you have then you have nothing so it's like you you're obligated socially to fight if you're in that situation Is there and I don't know anything at all Is there anything like if you fight and lose are you still okay because you've gained some respect?

[00:10:51] Totally, yeah You can lose and you can get your ass kicked bet you can't be a punk or you can't be you know Somebody who does nothing and then you're literally your own race will come take all your stuff

[00:11:00] Because they'd be like well you have no value and I start to yourself right because you can't protect them You can't protect yourself it can't protect us like you have no value and they would literally take your own race

[00:11:10] We'll take your own stuff like what some of your stuff that you have you and your radio You're you know all your stuff like the things you live off

[00:11:16] You know you're you're tiny two by two box of stuff so they will come you know liberate it for you So you get into you go into jail your first day. You're a teenager What's the first time someone challenges you? You know is in your face

[00:11:32] It happened in jail because I was in youth jail and then when I turned 18 they moved me straight to adult jail And day one big giant burly dude came in and tried to take my bowl of hot chili

[00:11:47] I think I was like six foot five like everyone sitting around everyone sitting at a giant table in a dorm setting minimum security and This big giant man literally walks in looks down sees my bowl and just scoops it up and puts it in front of me

[00:12:01] I go hey, that's a buddy. That's my bowl. He goes no, it's not I'm like and he's literally he's six foot five. He's 300. He's a giant man And I'm you know, it's an 18 year old kid at the time

[00:12:12] And I go oh man, he must have misheard me that that's my bowl of chili and he's like no, it's not And I know like I have to get up and do something about this because he's just trying to you know take my stuff

[00:12:22] so my very first confrontation was with him and I I Picked up the bowl of chili and threw it right in his face And then when he put his hands up I took the metal tray and started beating him over the head with it and then

[00:12:40] after he smacked me across the room and got me to stop doing that he came out we're sort of pounding on me and He was pounding on me and then I just looked up and there was his groin

[00:12:50] So I attacked his groin and when the guards came to pull him off of me I was attached to his groin and they were dragging me across the Cell block as well. Oh my gosh from that moment on everybody was like hey respect don't mess with that guy

[00:13:04] And so that's how I that's crazy. I got my respect in that jail And then every prison is a new experience because if someone senses there's weakness or if you show weakness You know prisons all about not having power

[00:13:16] They take everything away from you they take away all your power So everybody's struggling to gain power and the guard I mean, this is totally again naive on my part but the guards are not in there saying hey break it up Yeah

[00:13:28] No, no, and you you can't tell So Whatever happens happens. Yes, it's just it is what it is. You can't say he beat me up You can't tell because then you're the rat and then everybody comes for you

[00:13:40] So it's it's it's a tough place to live, you know, especially You know coming from the streets not having education not having a lot of support

[00:13:49] It was the first time I woke up and was like, wow, I really screwed up my life. I gotta get out of here So so so yes, let's so okay first. I want to say You uh

[00:13:59] spoke to a good friend of mine Ryan holiday or maybe he had read something you had written About about this concept of learning which you called plus minus equal Which is to you know find a teacher like a mentor

[00:14:12] Find people who are aspiring and rising up to to work with and then find people to teach Am I correct in saying that that was a message of yours? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, so I've totally stolen that I love it. Please use it

[00:14:26] But now I'll give you credit for it completely Um, but ryan did a very good job of giving you credit and um But I just love that concept because there's lots of different ways you can go with that like like a mentor

[00:14:37] Like a plus could be a virtual mentor or a real mentor like for you Bruce Lee was a plus but he was a virtual mentor and where is your brother ken or or might have been

[00:14:46] Uh, a slightly older, you know more real mentor and he might have had other real mentors a little along the line And then your equals are all the people who are also rising up who Um

[00:14:57] Are you know you exchange notes you exchange ideas you exchange techniques and you trust them because they're you're you're you're You're all equally ambitious and trying and then the minus and now you now you run all these

[00:15:08] Um training schools and stuff minus I think helps you solidify what you're learning because if you can't Explain it and teach it. You probably didn't really learn it so well like Bruce Lee was great at explaining things

[00:15:20] So I just love the concept. I think that could be applied to any area of life Yeah, I mean I do it for everything from marriage to business to you know god questions. I do

[00:15:30] You know, I've learned after 44 years. I don't know anything. How do you do with marriage? I need to learn this. I have a neighbor named less. He's been married to his wife For 47 years. Wow. And so anytime I can't figure it out

[00:15:44] I'd walk over next door and knock on the door and I sit down with less And I say less and less lays he's got 45 years. He lays it on me And and then who are you equals? Um in the marriage space mainly is people in my community

[00:15:57] Because we're all sharing, you know children and stuff like that So there's a couple of husbands that we're like, you know right here And then and then minus my minus uh, well I have

[00:16:07] I have three kind of younger business professionals that I mentor and it's also like a life mentoring And then I have Virtual people that I mentor kind of all over the world. So it really does apply I really do believe this plus minus equals that uh,

[00:16:26] Uh, that you that you talk about it really applies to every area of learning I mean I find it to be incredibly useful a thousand percent and you hit it in the minus because that's really where the magic happens

[00:16:37] You know, I mean nobody wants to be the minus But if you don't know, you don't know Somewhere every plus has to I mean if you have a plus that means that plus has a minus

[00:16:46] So and I think that is an important part of becoming the plus is being able to communicate to the minus and It's and and it's not about an ego thing. It's not like giving it forward

[00:16:57] It's like, oh, I didn't really learn this until I was able to explain it in a very simple way That I could understand that that made sense to me So I I find it very valuable in all the things that I try to learn

[00:17:08] so just that concept that now I can't believe now I'm talking to you because I've Read it in Ryan's book. I talked about it with Ryan and uh, I think it was ego is the enemy um, and And then I wrote it in one of my books

[00:17:23] And I've just kept writing about it because it's such a powerful concept but okay back back to Your your your 16 you're causing trouble. You get sent to jail Why are you causing so much trouble? Why are you such a bad kid?

[00:17:37] You know what I uh by the time I was 11 I left my house and became a ward of the state And I didn't know that the things that were going on in my house by way of punishments and stuff were abuse

[00:17:48] I didn't all I knew was I was an emotional basket case I couldn't hold anything together for more than a few days No sport no activities because I would just fall apart Um, but what was happening is I was being emotionally traumatized by the abuse

[00:18:01] Um, so when I left my home You know the first thing I learned was crime was a tool to get out of your home and protect you Because that's how I got out of my home and protect me. I actually threw rocks at a train

[00:18:11] And in california, that's a felony the first time I was ever able to leave my home I was 11 and I went and did 10 days in juvenile hall. Oh my god It was the first time I was away from my family

[00:18:21] I was hanging out with all the bad kids and I was talking to them and I'm like Man, like well, how do you guys deal with this being locked in the closet and stuff?

[00:18:28] And they're like, what are you talking about? I'm like, you don't get locked in the closet till I go No, that's so horrible and I realized when I was 11 These are the bad kids who were in like an 11 year old jail telling me how bad it is

[00:18:41] Yeah, and that's when I was like, oh my god, like I have to leave my home And you know went and saw the counselor and she's like, well, if you keep this a crime up We're gonna take you out of your home And I was like, well bingo

[00:18:51] So I just kept doing it and then they came and took me and then when it came time, you know the uh Counselors like, well, you know, they'll send you home like

[00:18:59] And I said, I want to go home. She would you guys stand up in court and say I don't want to go home It's I'm doing this because I don't want to go home And so once I did that then I was instantly awarded the state

[00:19:07] And then the problem was I learned that crime was a tool to change my situation So when things didn't work out the next place, I've like, well, I know what to do Come into crime, go back to juvenile hall, see my friends get any placement

[00:19:18] So I got in this cycle which didn't stop until I was 17 and I was married And because I was married and I was an emancipated minor Anything that I did illegally was charged as an adult Wow, so

[00:19:32] So that's when things change. You're not just going back to juvenile hall meeting your friends Now you're with the guy who's going to take your plate of chili who's six foot five

[00:19:56] Now when you were 16, you had um, uh, a girlfriend and a kid or I guess you said you got married at that age And and a kid what happened? I I I know eventually of course you went to jail

[00:20:08] All these things happen in your life. Do you are able to keep in touch with the kid from that age? Yeah, my son little frank. He lives cross town from me. Oh, he's now 20 or maybe 29 this year. See a big guy Yeah, big guy super sweet. I graduated

[00:20:22] Continuation high school with him and my wife. Wow. Yeah when I was 17 years old so so Uh, you get I saw the before and after pictures you get it a job. You were like a big guy then

[00:20:36] Yeah, and so uh, bob shamrock who was this you you were staying in kind of this home for troubled kids that he was running Um, I believe it was him who said to you with you know, you had worked out

[00:20:50] You were like kind of a ripped guy. He said you're either going to be a fighter like like ken here or you know ken shamrock who was uh His I guess original adopted son or first adopted son or you should be a male stripper

[00:21:05] Did you consider the male stripper side? I maybe spent one night thinking about it, but that was I was not uh, that was not my speed and I always I always dreamt of becoming a champion

[00:21:16] So it was one of my you know childhood fantasies stripping was not right. So that makes sense so but ken at that time, uh, I mean maybe I mean I think ken had the sense and you didn't have the sense that oh

[00:21:28] You're fighting that you had been used to was kind of this street fighting almost style like to protect yourself to to You know cause damage without being hurt but not necessarily yet a martial art because you're not learning that in in jail

[00:21:40] and he had been kind of in training and You know, he sort of says to himself. Well, I need to put this guy in his place and kind of crush him

[00:21:49] And so when you first kind of fought him to kind of see what this was all about what what happened Well, that was we sought the try out Which is um Very nice sounding word. It sounds very, you know pleasant

[00:22:04] It's actually 500 squats sit-ups push-ups and leg lifts and then you spar professional fighter for 20 minutes And I sparred my brother because he wanted to be the guy and he just beat the living she like

[00:22:15] I would just beat me like it was and you know what I don't understand what that means like Beating like never been like if someone Slaps me in the face. Yeah, I'm just going to be like ow. Don't Don't do that again. That hurt What how did you

[00:22:32] I still don't understand. Someone punches you in the face repeatedly. Aren't you gonna have damage? Yeah, yeah, I mean I was pretty banged up I couldn't walk for about a week and it also stretched out my knee tendons with heel hooks

[00:22:42] And so I was pretty banged up. Could there be permanent damage? I mean, obviously there could be I mean I probably got some brain damage, but no, no, I mean, you know Tendons torn and I broke a rib and he broke my nose and stuff like that

[00:22:54] But all that stuff heals, you know, so it wasn't anything like really serious But it was the first like wake-up call, you know when you're You know, I considered myself a very tough man Even I you know, like I've walked the streets like uh, you know

[00:23:07] I've considered myself a very tough person until that day and then I just woke up like it was literally like Like how could another human being do this to me? And so did you see that the suddenly the difference between kind of like street style fighting and oh

[00:23:21] There's something almost he's using some techniques. Yeah, yeah, I can tell like right away Like there was it was just it was so different from any other physical confrontation Because it wasn't like he was just stronger than you so hitting you harder destroy

[00:23:36] Like it was everything was he was just destroying me like it was just like crush smash You know and and to my you know detriment like I didn't even know what the rules were, you know No one told me I could tap. Yeah, I was in prison

[00:23:47] I didn't know this whole thing was evolving becoming a sport like I didn't see or hear any of it So I didn't know what to do and I just fought like I was fighting for my life

[00:23:55] So to me it was a very different experience and I'm sure they were having Yeah, because I'm like straight out of prison like two days after I got out of prison I was in the gym

[00:24:03] You know and I never laughed and that's you know, that's how it became successful. What does it mean to be beaten up like By a by a professional fighter. It's just Beaten like you know, you go to a hospital. You're so

[00:24:16] No, no not like why don't people die like you're just tired You know like you you're so exhausted because if you don't know how to fight You don't know how to use your energy or your body and the energies correctly So besides the fear and all the angst

[00:24:29] There's also this, you know, tremendous drain like you just lose all of your energy very very quickly because you don't know What to do with it all? Yeah, but he's also at the same time

[00:24:38] It's not like you're running a race and getting tired at the same time that's happening Someone's punching you in the face punching your stomach kicking you in the groin Tripping you I thought I was gonna die like I honestly because I had never been beaten up

[00:24:53] I mean I fight on the street like if you get beat up, you know That means you're like getting killed in an alley. So like I've never I was never

[00:25:00] Knocked down like I've never been beaten up even a jelly. You weren't being no never. No, I've never been You know, I always if you I never mess with people

[00:25:09] But if you mess with me, you know, you get the one morning and then you know, then you get the rest of it So but most people can tell by my intention. I'm not playing

[00:25:19] So no one ever messes with me right but what do you mean by your intention? Like how do you how do you Give me the look that's like don't mess with you Most people don't really want to fight because it's incredibly dangerous and scary

[00:25:33] Yes, and we survived by Getting away. So the truth in the human spirit is they don't really want to fight. There's some other thing going on ego or There's some other issue. So what I've learned is I know how to fight

[00:25:47] And I know how to talk to people that know how to see that I know how to fight So I just tell people the truth like if you keep doing this, you're gonna force me to do x y and z was x y and z

[00:25:59] You I usually add something vulgar like, you know You're gonna force me to put you to sleep and stuff you under a chair Like I say something like weird. That's arresting because they were like what?

[00:26:11] Did you say that and so I use like a weird psychological thing but I'm honest with people. Hey, I'm not interested in that and you know, I'm uncomfortable

[00:26:22] Can I buy you a drink and I just try to flip it and then if they don't and I get real which is if you keep messing with me I mean, I'm gonna kill you in front of all your friends

[00:26:30] Like I just go real and they're always like he's either crazy or he's being real I feel like I feel like that works for you because I could even see you're sort of huge But yeah, if someone Came up to me and was in my face

[00:26:43] What should I do if I just if I don't want to fight like I never want to fight what should I say to get them to Back off. I wasn't planning on asking you this because I'm just curious like you're looking at me like what should I do

[00:26:55] You should I run human beings should be able to de-escalate any situation? Huh? That's interesting human beings so animals You know, we can't negotiate with animals, but human beings should be able to

[00:27:09] Have a conversation and you should be able to de-escalate but sometimes people are crazy, right? Yeah So like go, you know, someone comes into a bar

[00:27:18] Picks on you and you say hey, can I buy you a drink and they just slap your drink off the bar like no like and because I'm you know I'm clearly easy Easy to fight. So what would I what would you suggest I do?

[00:27:34] Walk away. Yeah, walk away. I love so I'm not gonna say hey, buddy Why you're not gonna fight. All right, I'm gonna fight think about the end game. Right. Are you gonna fight? No

[00:27:43] If you fuck with me, I'm gonna fight right and I'm gonna crush you and I'm gonna lead with that So I don't get messed with I think that's the difference in there's no bluffing

[00:27:51] There's no bluffing. I don't bluff because humans probably are pretty good at determining ultimately a bluff at that level Yeah, and then it's No one ever comes up. I want to fight you

[00:28:03] Like no one ever is doing that. It's all the you know drunk. I was in this weird There's all these other circumstances that make people think they want to fight you But when you get real with people They just you know, they just lose it

[00:28:17] And then I do a lot of and this is what I recommend you do is I do a lot of psychology when I talk to people You know, I'm not You know Confrontational I'm not, you know, if a guy bumps into me. I'm saying I'm sorry

[00:28:31] Like oh, I'm sorry because I don't know if he bumped into me. I bumped into him but You know, I wouldn't want to be me So I'm the first guy like oh my god. I stepped on your shoe. I'm sorry dude

[00:28:41] Um, whereas most people would just well whatever So I'm just very connected to it and then you know, if I see a guy who's really drunk You know, I'll just get all medieval and you know lower my voice and lean in and you know be like listen, buddy

[00:28:54] You seem like a nice guy It's just good. You're about to die. Yeah, but you know like I'm here with my family and you know, you're You know, you're now making me very unpleasant, you know, I'm a professional fighter

[00:29:04] And if you keep doing this, here's what I'm going to do And you say it nice and quiet when I'm not embarrassed and I lean right into their ear

[00:29:11] But I'm also willing to fight like if you mess with me, I will fight you right so, you know, but but Most people don't want to fight No, that's because you even all of them and and we're we're skipping around a little bit

[00:29:24] But like I mean I saw in in the documentary on spike. What was the name of it? You found my blood Behind my blood. So what what once you started kind of saying hey, I want to um, I want to learn this

[00:29:34] I want to do this. I want to compete in this. What was your what was your initial regimen like? How did you start getting better? um, well, I I took the same kind of scholastic schooling approach because when I got to prison

[00:29:47] I kind of woke up and I was like, wow, I just screwed up my whole life I got three and a half years to do have no education I have 20 felonies like I'm totally a screw up and I would I realized then

[00:29:56] You know, all that stuff the counselors were telling me was true I was going to screw my life up crime was not a good tool like I was all just kind of fell on me

[00:30:03] And what I did was, you know, I I saw all my friends from childhood there with me I was like, this is not the way to go. I went the other way

[00:30:10] I went to college I got educated and I completely changed who I was as a human being I changed my intentions my beliefs like I you know I changed who I was and my new intention was I was going to provide for my son

[00:30:21] if my son was you know, a baby then and I was going to um, You know, not become not be a criminal anymore. I was going to educate myself and you know

[00:30:32] Change my life for the better and in that journey Bob came along, you know, and it's like stripping or fighting And so clearly clearly he was probably even joking with you

[00:30:43] He clearly wanted you to fight and and I think he was I think he was dead on the 5050 I think he was into it because Ken had a very successful career as a stripper And so I didn't know that yeah when he so Ken was a professional wrestler

[00:30:55] And then he you know when he needed money he would do stripping and then he would do professional wrestling And before the fighting got big, you know, that's how he kind of made his money

[00:31:03] He was you know made money off his body. So it's perfectly natural for my dad to say hey, you got this great asset You know, here's the two avenues That kens made money pick one and to be clear

[00:31:15] This is not the dad that had been abusing you when you were 11 He adopted you as as he got to know you when you were older and so on Yeah, so he adopted you and he adopted Ken right yeah Ken first and then he adopted me years later

[00:31:27] And so just out of curiosity. What do you think comes first? Actions or intentions? So did you start so you got you you realize okay? I'm in jail and screw up and so on but

[00:31:38] Did did you start finding things that you were interested in studying and then kind of your intentions changed? Or did you say I better? I don't know go to college. So I get out of this life or

[00:31:51] Maybe there's a subtle only a subtle difference, but I'm just curious what you what you think about it for me I it was real simple. I had a manila folder

[00:31:58] I sat down with myself and god one day and I wrote down all the things I was on the front of that folder It's a liar as a cheat. I was the thief

[00:32:05] I was a criminal like all the stuff that that I was and then on the back of that folder I wrote down all the stuff I was going to become world champion spokesman

[00:32:15] You know all the stuff that I dreamt of becoming and then all the things all the actions all the needs Where and the things I was studying were the piece of paper in the middle of that file I see so you kind of said

[00:32:27] To um for each action with this action taking me closer to this side or with this action taking me closer to this side And you chose through the actions that would take you closer to the positive side

[00:32:35] Yep, and every day when I opened it. I got to see exactly what I was now And what got me there which was me being who I was

[00:32:43] Inside was all the meat and then every time I finished I just closed it and went and that's where we go After Ken kind of beat you up that first time

[00:33:08] Did you say okay? How did you start training and how did you start getting into you know mastering the field? You've mastered that whole art for me now things are a little different. It's like you say um, you know techniques training everything sort of evolves

[00:33:24] But but back then you were Not it's not so long ago, but you were you were the peak you were the you were the giant So what was your regimen to get there to get beyond where anybody else had gone? The first thing was I got a notebook

[00:33:37] Because I was the only guy taking notes and drawing diagrams and pictures because when I read the gco notebook It was all notes and you know it was bruce's drawings from his from his journey. So um

[00:33:48] And I think I got that very much from going to college and stuff in prison I had a very scholastic, you know experience. So I was the only guy with a notebook for years

[00:33:57] And that's one of the reasons I figured it out because I you know wrote down asked a question create a theory practice apply It works, you know put it in stone um But it was really the focus. I mean I I put 100 of my brain to it

[00:34:12] To where every single night when I fell asleep I just continued training dreaming and going through the same theories and strategies and techniques as when I was awake So my brain just never turned off and that's how I was able to evolve so quickly in the sport

[00:34:25] Is once my body got strong it's pretty strong anyways once my body got accustomed to the techniques and the energy needs um I just it all clicked so so so uh talks to me more about the the energy needs so with each

[00:34:40] So obviously again, you it's back to the you know You want to use as little energy as possible to cause as much damage as possible What were some of the things you learned really quickly that you didn't know before that would preserve energy? uh balance leverage

[00:34:57] Uh our theory our system is based on leverage. So it's like a plate on top of a ball You always want to be the plate Because your weight is the biggest weapon. So just learning that You know and how to use your weight as a weapon

[00:35:13] I didn't realize but ken was just putting all his weight on me half the time and I was going Because I didn't know what to do with all of this weight and for me the effort that it took to move the weight

[00:35:22] Was what was making me tired. Is that why in boxing some? I mean, I kind of know the answer to this but is that why in boxing sometimes you see One particularly in heavy weight bites

[00:35:31] You see one of the fighters just like grab the guy and they're like just it seems like they're just sort of resting But probably what's happening is the the the one guy's putting all his weight on the other guy

[00:35:41] And so the other guy has to expend a lot of energy even though it seems like nothing's happening They lean on them you weigh on them and there's a million tricks to using your energy Effectively, and then the other thing is because I was studying so much

[00:35:54] You know all the techniques like I was telling you they've evolved and they've changed So, you know, I was learning techniques but also learning better ways to do them

[00:36:02] Because I was studying the whole time. So I was like, what about this and that and move your leg there and try this So one of the reasons why I continued to evolve I became a teacher after six months six months of training. I was teaching other fighters

[00:36:13] Because I'd taught people in prison and you know, I ran a boot camp like I you know All the areas of development that I needed or thought I would need for this career. I picked up, you know So yeah, I mean I think the big difference is

[00:36:29] I didn't care about being tough. I didn't care about being You know the toughest guy in the room Like I literally just wanted to figure this thing out and become the best at it sounds like what you were doing was

[00:36:40] You there was this let's say let's call it a metta skill fighting and then you broke it up into A lot of micro skills like like Balance or footwork or punching or kickboxing. So all of these are completely different skills

[00:36:55] But each one kind of had to be learned to be an ultimate Viter and it sounds like that's what you were doing because it seems like beforehand People would be either be a wrestler or they would do karate or they would do boxing

[00:37:08] And and none of those disciplines by themselves is going to let someone be You know a mixed martial arts champion. I feel like you kind of have to learn all of them And so and it was this combination that really makes the the art form

[00:37:20] It really made this it really created the sport. So What made you realize you had to learn many many different martial arts? Because certain people with certain skills would affect me And so, you know a strong wrestler would be able to control me

[00:37:37] So then I'd have to you know learn to use my legs and my hips more So I was very much because I didn't know anything I was just if it worked we used it if it didn't I just stopped using it but it's the classic thing where you're

[00:37:48] You're doing study. It's almost like you're doing a scientific study on yourself and What just worked against you? And like a wrestler you just said would do something to restrain you or hold you down

[00:38:00] And you'd have to figure out you'd have to really stay to figure out. Well, how can I fight that? And then the next wrestler comes along and how can I fight that? I mean It's the classic of Not learning from failure but learning by

[00:38:12] Because I don't like that praise so much but learning from experimentation almost Yeah, and this is this is one of those sports where you're using your body like Intimately so you have to experiment and you have to understand

[00:38:23] Everything about it. We always say the best fighter would be A ballroom dancer who is a gymnast Because you'd never catch it when they could move their body in any position you wanted to like, you know They would be so powerful with their being with their body

[00:38:40] And the other thing which most people don't realize and I I say it in passing because It makes people think but I look at people's bodies And I do a complete diagnosis of your structure your biomechanics and what I think

[00:38:52] It would take to beat you that all happens in like 15 seconds So you just point right at my forehead and push me over And I'm dead because I've trained I trained for 16 years every night focus

[00:39:03] So when I see a human body, I don't see tall skinny. I just see structures that have power Okay But the average person on the street is basically all the same in the sense that

[00:39:12] They they sit in a chair all day going to work. They probably have don't really eat as healthy as possible They don't really exercise as much as they should So the average person must look all the same to you

[00:39:23] Which is just I have to punch this guy in the gut and then knee him in the head when he bends over and he's gone Yeah, but uh

[00:39:31] If you go deeper into it what it really comes down to is I was studying the biomechanics of the human body They were studying fighting I was studying the human body and how it and how to maximize it and they were studying technical fighting

[00:39:46] So that reminds me I'm I'm going to make a leap that might sound funny, but it reminds me of uh Leonardo da Vinci so every artist was studying how to paint But he was doing autopsies on bodies to understand really how

[00:40:02] You know how to depict a human body He was deciding, you know, how the sun would would hit, you know Would shade the different parts of the body So you could really understand how to draw the body in a complex way as opposed to just understanding how to

[00:40:16] How to paint which is what most people were doing back then And so it seems here is that you evolved the art form by going that one level deeper of not just how do I

[00:40:26] Crush this person but how how is the body working so that I can cause the most damage? It's almost like these imaginary Points or I don't know if they're imaginary or not, but like oh if I touch this person here, they're they're dead

[00:40:39] So is that that's how I look at the human body? So it just it's an assessment. It's like And I think it's just from all the training because I'm you know body mechanics work So I look at a human body and it's like okay arms are long

[00:40:54] You know structure strength and I make just in my mind There's a mental assessment which has a numerical value And so if you see a guy that you can you tell if they're a fighter? Oh, yeah

[00:41:04] Yeah, I can tell anybody who who has the intention of fighting and I think that's the big Um Separating factor between people that want to fight people that don't want to buy 99% of people do not want to fight But there's a few people that want to fight

[00:41:20] And you can tell by their intention when I when I lower my voice and I speak I speak with the intention that I'm going to break your face in two seconds if you don't stop doing that

[00:41:27] That's why people go. Let me know if I upset you during this But that's why people go. Oh, he must be serious because who else is you know speaking all crazy like that So so I remember there was one guy you were fighting Asian guy and

[00:41:41] The he was mentioned he trained With uh, he was he was willing to die or he had the will to die is how he trained So kind of kind of being I guess you you can Set yourself up psychologically so that

[00:41:54] You throw yourself so fiercely into a fight Without being worried about death almost this stoic way of looking at fighting And this was one of the our initial people you you fought when your career was was moving up

[00:42:06] Um, do you think that's a helpful helpful way to look at fighting to think that you could die? Oh, yeah, and be okay with that for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I think it's a good way to approach life

[00:42:17] You know, I mean one of the best sayings in Native American culture is today is a good day to die Which means You're in the right place and everything's taken care of so you go do it. So yeah, I mean

[00:42:30] We always make a joke about people always ask me, you know, how did you stay focused and What do you do to train your mind this and stuff and I would tell this joke but this truth Um, and I'd say in a funny way

[00:42:40] I I say this gentle gentle mantra to myself Which helps focus my mind and they would lean in they'd be like tell me I go it goes just like this die Die die. They're like, what are you talking about? I'm trying to kill every person

[00:42:52] That I'm in front of and I'm willing to die to do it And so so so you you make you say that that could be analogous to life but let's say and so there there's the cliche of Um, you know live life as if today's your last day

[00:43:07] But of course there's more nuance to it because if you have kids and you want them to grow up and and I don't know either go to college or buy a home or whatever You kind of have to save up for them

[00:43:18] So you can't always live life like okay, I'm gonna spend all my money today I'm gonna, you know go crazy today because today's the day I'm gonna die Where's the balance there? How do you find that balance? Well, I think you gotta roll it back because um

[00:43:34] It's an expression of all things are right If the work the work is done like it's done so, you know it when you're a warrior And everything's cared for you can go out and

[00:43:49] And go to the death because everything's cared for I see so so when it's not cared for You probably shouldn't go out there and bite to the death right so that that again leads to Um, that manila folder. Do you go to this side or to that side?

[00:44:03] So if if you're if not everything's cared for okay, let's just go Let's just today go in a direction where the things that are not cared for are cared for So you can every day make again make so so you mentioned the warriors code

[00:44:16] Just now and you mentioned it in the in the documentary. What what What does that mean to you? What what are those? What's that code? Well, those are basically the principles of martial arts for me

[00:44:27] So those to honor respect discipline which applies to everything honor respect discipline discipline Yeah honor to what what does honor mean honor is um Well the first thing comes to mind is honesty. I used to have a problem with honesty

[00:44:40] So now I'm thousand percent honest. So my word is my honor if I give my word, that's all you need You know if I tell you something, you know, I'm gonna tell you the truth

[00:44:49] It's because that's honor, you know if I promise you something. I'm gonna do it. That's honor We do deal together. I won't screw you because I'm an honorable person so I run everything like that in my life and you know the factor of discipline is

[00:45:03] Listen if you're not disciplined never be successful And never guide people lead people like you know, you'll never achieve the next level physically mentally spiritually You just won't because you have no discipline. How do you determine what you should be disciplined in? Hmm mind body and spirit

[00:45:18] Plus minus equal So what do we need? What are we looking for? What do we want? I think a lot of times people sit might be listening to the saying I'm 35 or 40 or 45 and 50 I either don't know what I want because I've spent so much time

[00:45:32] you know just kind of getting through each day or 50 plus and I feel like it's too late for me to do what I want. Well, what would you say to those those people? If you're breathing You can do anything you want

[00:45:44] The problem is we've caught in all these lies and we get caught in all these roles that we're living And most of them are just Social obligations or stuff we think that we're supposed to be doing

[00:45:53] The reality is you can do anything you want good bad. It doesn't really matter I mean you'll have to pay the consequences or reap the rewards The truth is you're in control of every action. You can do anything you want

[00:46:03] I could wake up tomorrow and start living a convict again. Like I can still I can start stealing stuff tomorrow Um, but that would go against my morals and everything that I've built up and everything I believe in this I see life is like a big journey

[00:46:19] And I believe you're supposed to become the best human being Throughout this journey and you're supposed to help everybody else do the same And if you don't You're not that good of a person. You're an okay person You're an all right person

[00:46:32] But those people that go no, I'm gonna make myself the best human being possible and I'm gonna take everybody around me and do the same thing That's how you move The world that changed mess it changed things and and that's how I live my life

[00:46:44] And only because I went through such an experience. I know what the bottom's like Like I know You know, I mean we were laughing today was like I stood in line for government cheese when I was a kid

[00:46:53] That's and I remember standing in line and going all right We're getting the cheese and so I told the story to my daughter and she's like she goes what cheese She goes, where does the cheese come from? I'm like, I don't know

[00:47:04] But you know, I know what it's like to have zero and you can always build up You can always build up but it starts It starts by changing this you change your mind change your mind to believe that it's possible

[00:47:17] Yeah, and then what's the very next thing after that action You gotta take action and here's why people get to 50 and don't and aren't living the lives that they want to They're not doing personal reflection. They're not writing their dreams down

[00:47:32] They don't have a plan to accomplish it. So they're just doing what they do But everything I sold a movie. I just wrote it down. I'm gonna sell a movie I wrote two books. I just wrote it down one day. I'm gonna write a book

[00:47:44] That was it and once I made the intention And talked to an author and a year later we have a book Most people never write it down They never take the intention because they're afraid they won't do it. I think that's right and I think people also

[00:47:59] They look too far to the end product. Like if you said to yourself A year from now, I'm going to have a book That might be too scary a thought but if you say to yourself, okay a book I

[00:48:12] Value the idea of having a book in a year that seems like a good intention to have the first step is finding an author Um, I think breaking things down into smaller steps. Like I'm sure when you studied

[00:48:24] But what back in the day kickboxing for the first time you didn't say to yourself, okay, I'm gonna Kick a guy off a horse. You probably figured well What's the first things I need to do to strengthen my legs or whatever it is? I'm just making this up

[00:48:36] But there's probably like micro steps with each thing that you have to learn And that is the beauty of the basis of martial arts Small incremental improvements to achieve a larger goal and then that tying into what your body needs

[00:48:49] Protection whatever and what your community means. That's like that's the martial arts journey When you get that down, then you're in your crack I love that you're so in touch with your being and the beings around you and you're all on this

[00:49:02] Positive growth mission. So it's like you can't help but come out of it a better human being So I never thought of it that way. So the basis of martial arts is small incremental changes to

[00:49:14] What was the what's the final part that you just said to perfection to excellence to to and you're never going to achieve that No, so it's always small incremental changes every day And imagine if you went to a place every day

[00:49:25] And the whole conversation was that's great. Let's make it better Like just the tiniest bit better today And then we'll do the same tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow After a hundred days, you've got a hundred like many improvements. That's how you build people up

[00:49:38] You know, I did that myself because I didn't know I just went here's my intention Here's what I have to do the community came and supported me the resources came out

[00:49:45] But it's like until you make that intention until you show up at the martial arts school until you show up at class You know, it doesn't nothing changes And again, also, it's interesting that You're allowed to define it for yourself

[00:49:57] Like there's no one school of thought from 3 000 years ago That's the school you I mean again, you combined all these schools To create your own style of fighting So when you when you're actually kind of moving up through the ranks and

[00:50:13] Destroying everyone in your path literally what was like the hardest fight you were in where you had to really use your brain to say Okay He's presenting a problem and I have to figure out in real time how to solve this problem

[00:50:26] It was fighting ensign in no way in Japan that big Asian dude The one who had the word to die? Yeah. Yeah, and he's you know, half Japanese half Hawaiian So they're very much the bushido, you know the bushido way

[00:50:40] And it was about seven minutes into the fight He he folded me over backwards and mounts me. He's like on top of me elbowing my face in and Why didn't you just collapse that?

[00:50:51] Just give up. So he's huge. It's not like just like a small guy doing this Yeah, he's like, you know 20 plus pounds on me and he's you know got me in the most, you know vulnerable position

[00:51:01] Um, and he's just elbowing away on my face. What does he mean? He's pulled you over backwards We're standing clenched up I was trying to knee him so my hips were getting too close and he went from a high grab to a waist grab

[00:51:12] And then he pulled my waist into his and stepped forward He took your energy of moving closer to him and he switched on you to kind of push that in

[00:51:20] And so he folds me over backwards like this like I wrench my back and then he jumps on top of my chest And he's like elbowing my face in so it was one of those moments where

[00:51:31] I thought I was going to die like I was like, there's no way I'm going to survive this But I wasn't going to give up So I was like, okay. Well There's a problem here And that was the problem so

[00:51:44] But what I did was, you know, I just stayed true to my intention my intention was Nobody's gonna kill me so And I just had a moment where I was like, he's gonna kill me and then I went wait a minute

[00:51:55] Nobody can kill me and I got up knocked him out. And so how did you though get out of that particular situation? He's in control of you at that point. Yeah, I um

[00:52:05] I just hung on and kept moving and I could tell uh, he was getting tired of beating on me actually And then the other thing that I was doing was I had learned to use my skeletal muscles to hang off people

[00:52:18] And we talked about leaning on them and applying weight to him So even though he was on top of me, I was actually hanging off of his body So he was holding him slamming on your on your face

[00:52:29] So I'm like I'm like this and he's literally lifting me up to hit me But he's lifting my body weight. So after about 10 times he's tired And so I had to kind of brave this moment where he's like, you know,

[00:52:44] How did you hold on for the 10 times? I just um I I made that commitment. I knew you know that Here's the thing is You know, I I was like they're gonna have to kill me to take me out of here

[00:52:58] And I'm never gonna give up like this is my thing. It's my chance, you know, I'm gonna go all in um, but You never know until you're at that moment like you never know until death is right there and you're looking at it

[00:53:10] And you know, I thought that was my moment. So I just had this, you know I had this moment in my spirit which was am I really ready? And then I went not only am I ready this guy ain't gonna kill me

[00:53:22] And I got I got you know, I wiggled out and you know went into a firefight and then I'm knocking him out and and that kind of um Sort of so-called rope adobe style this one where we're there like just wailing on you

[00:53:34] And you do things to get them tired until finally you can switch you did that again with uh Tito Ruiz. Yeah, Ortiz. Yeah. Yeah, Ortiz and because he was like a like He was just out there hungry for to kill you and

[00:53:50] Uh, and he was very polite about it later, you know, he's on the documentary talking about it But you were holding on against, you know, uh into the edge like what was happening there? He was just

[00:54:02] You know the next size of athlete and he's really he's really a heavyweight But he's able to drop down into the middle weight The middle weight category And he was just so big he was so strong, you know, he was so he was the next size up

[00:54:16] I just took so much energy to To battle with were you afraid getting in the ring or no I knew I could beat Tito like I this is how confident I was to beat Tito I signed a four fight extension to my contract

[00:54:31] And put in the clause if I ever publicly retire the rest of the contract is no one void Because I knew I'd beat Tito stand up on pay-per-view retire and become the first free agent

[00:54:40] So you knew you would beat Tito even though in the middle of that fight you probably also knew that You would have 30 or so punches on your face at that moment Yeah, so I was so big like if you see if you see us together

[00:54:54] It's silly and when we did the the poster for the fight. They literally slid out on apple box They're like, I'm so sorry, mr. Shemmerk and the guy slides out I don't think you can stand on this it just doesn't look right because I'm like this

[00:55:06] You know I'm staring up with this giant man um, but he was just the next size of and the next level and You know physical needs And I was I was the first super athlete guy, but that's what really you know

[00:55:19] I needed that super athleticism and the technique to beat him So you were talking earlier about the warrior code when you did honor discipline respect What what comes what comes next if anything? um, well, let's see. So the mind body and spirit are the way um

[00:55:35] The how is the honor respect and discipline and then There's a few Minor mechanics of it the idea of consistent improvement is either wrapped up in the journey to excellence or We also call it kaizen small incremental improvements for practice um, and it's really those like three

[00:55:59] Concepts what about people who who know what the right like let's take an obvious example Someone who smokes knows that it's probably wrong to smoke, but they don't stop Um, and they would like to stop even let's assume every possible thing their intentions are good

[00:56:14] They want to stop They're addicted to it But you know there's ways to overcome addiction, but they just don't stop or I'll use an example personal to me I know I should go to the gym every day or or I should exercise probably more than I do

[00:56:28] I have just recently started going to the gym But for the first time in like six years So I should probably be exercising more than I do But it's hard for me because I don't enjoy it and now you shouldn't enjoy

[00:56:40] Anything that's worth having is probably not enjoyable like when you're when your brother first beat you up I'm sure you weren't having a fun time and yet that propelled you to worldwide success

[00:56:51] So it seems a writing a book is not enjoyable. And yet when it's done, that's what you you did a good job and Uh, but sometimes you can't do everything

[00:57:01] That's not enjoyable in order to achieve many different kinds of success. So I don't know how should I think differently about Lifting weights make it fun. How do I do that? Do something you like to do

[00:57:14] I guarantee you there's a physical activity that you enjoy doing that's fun And that will give you a good workout I got a dog. I walk my dog twice a day As I get you walking

[00:57:26] Like hiking and I'm walking twice a day and even though I work out it's still another Chance for me to do a little more But here's the thing is we all know what's good for us doesn't you know, it doesn't mean we're doing it I knew

[00:57:40] You know when about 13 or 14 like I was a total knucklehead and that I was screwing everything up didn't mean I stopped You know what I mean? Like you really need those big wake-up calls Well, what's what's something for you right now that

[00:57:52] You I mean because also we can't do everything that we would like to do in our lives. What's something for you It's right in that gray area or you would like to do more of what you haven't yet Uh had enough Or motivation to actually start doing it

[00:58:09] Mine is even stranger Because when I was 16, I was diagnosed with a spondylethiosis. My right leg had gone numb and started to drag behind me So what that means is one of my little vertebrae is broken off in my lower spine

[00:58:23] And I have no stability in the left side of my lower spine. So throughout my whole career. I've had this problem um, yeah, somebody just starts Punching you when the left side is on the left side and I'm like, oh no right now

[00:58:35] But recently I met this doctor who's like gave me a whole new understanding of my spine So basically he's like listen, you're just a wussy like what are you talking about?

[00:58:44] He's like you're thinking you have a hurt spine when you just have these muscle imbalances like let me rebalance you Let me show you the exercise to do and I guarantee you'll never have pain again. Like this is amazing

[00:58:54] It's like unlocks my back does the thing everything's amazing shows me the exercise He's like you can't do this exercise enough do it every day all day long I do it every third day

[00:59:04] So you just don't you just it's not fun for you. It's not fun and it feels weird It's uncomfortable, but it makes me better like night and day better Is there some benefit from doing it every third day or are you kind of

[00:59:16] It's just losing all the benefits would be to have it every day several times a day And it takes me three minutes to do it like most of us. It's a very short period of time

[00:59:25] But I I'm like oh and I need a table to lay on like I make a million excuses not to do it And you know, I need to do it. It's kind of important because you know, you're not getting any younger

[00:59:37] And uh, you know at some point this becomes degenerative right so you have to start doing it But we all know like we know why we're overweight. We know why we're stressed We know all these things, but what are we doing about it's like, you know

[00:59:52] I was very blessed in that I found martial arts and it became my way to connect with the community Learn about myself explore things and let you know it became my world And you know very few people have that where you can walk into a door

[01:00:06] And you're just suddenly part of this amazing, you know personal development community So to me like it was just such a powerful experience. I didn't even know it existed Like I didn't know you could go to martial arts schools and all that stuff, you know even happened there

[01:00:18] But because again, it's not like martial arts as you've described in this podcast It's not just about oh being able to kick a guy in the face It's all this kind of method of excellence that could be applied to any area of life

[01:00:30] Anything and you see that really in a lot of Asian cultures that you know Like imagine a Japanese tea ceremony is almost like a martial art Just the way every aspect is ritualized and and and it's sort of this movement towards perfection

[01:00:44] Of the of the tea ceremony. So it seems to apply the same principles Um, so so your career lasted a really long time. I mean you you went, you know I don't know the exact number of years

[01:00:56] But you were really kind of at the top of your game for for a long time for at least It's hard to constantly fight for 10 years. It is I did 16 years straight And I went undefeated for 10 years

[01:01:09] Undefended for 10 years. Yeah, what happened the first time you got you you lost I got disqualified. Okay, because I need a hensel gray six from new york and I need him in the back of the head Um, which I thought was perfectly legal

[01:01:23] But it turned out it wasn't so what about the first time you you lost lost? Was it Diaz? First time I lost lost Uh, was kong li you broke my arm. So oh, yeah, I couldn't I couldn't continue after that

[01:01:36] That was the first time I really got hurt to like, you know wake up call and and that was when I started planning my exit you know and then and then um

[01:01:44] And then it kind of after you're one of your last fights or maybe your last fight was uh, uh, I forgot his first name Diaz yeah, Nick Nick Diaz and

[01:01:54] There's this real sense that okay, you're handing over to the next generation. What do you think he was doing differently? Or let's even take it a little further. Um, this recent fight that happened in the past few weeks

[01:02:04] And I don't follow the sport at all, but like uh, george st. Pierre the gsp Um, what's he doing differently where he's just so clearly vanquishing his opponents He's just a martial artist. He hasn't stopped studying. I think that's where You know his

[01:02:23] Value is you know in this one you only are as good in this sport. You're only as good as your study So if you leave studying everyone just keeps learning getting better You wouldn't think that though

[01:02:33] You would think you're only as good as your ability to kill somebody this one's literally because You know, you you have to stay on top of this thing and then the you know

[01:02:41] The styles and the moves and stuff ebb and flow with popularity who's winning who's doing this He really have to kind of stay on top of the the art and he stayed on top of it

[01:02:49] And when you watch when you watch him now, are you like, oh, I see what he's doing there. That's really interesting He's doing the same thing But the sport has de-evolved technically So that's the the weird thing about the sport now is

[01:03:07] Because television and because you know these mediums have gotten so big The level of athlete has diminished a little bit really because Now you need character personality presentation. There's a lot more to the to the presentation so we're drawing from a different crowd it's athletes and

[01:03:25] Other people that want to be on tv and that want to be you know in that type of sporting experience I see so so often charisma or some type of weird charisma is driving people to the top

[01:03:35] But you have a guy like gsp who can kept studying so he's able to destroy that guy So he's a martial artist and he's a super athlete and you know, he's still he's still focused on

[01:03:47] Martial arts if I tried to do it. I'd be like I'd get my ass kicked. It's I'm not Yeah, I don't dream about it. You know, it's all out of my head now Where where do you see yourself going in the next 20 years?

[01:03:59] Or in martial arts. No just in general in general, um I just I mean you've you've hit the top of the world in one area of life. So you could I'm going to keep working on my Community because I live in a wonderful community

[01:04:14] Looking for ways to impact it, you know, our families so blessed like we're healthy and we're doing really well Um, and really my next thing when I'm focused on next year is this mental health awareness campaign in this mission um

[01:04:27] I've been greatly affected by mental health and a lot of my clients in my community have been affected by mental health and Tell me how

[01:04:33] Um, you know, one of my best friends is bipolar, you know, and I've I've been caring for him for about seven or eight years Um, and in the journey I've learned so much about it

[01:04:42] You know, I've learned so much about how public feels about it and you know, how he survives and I mean I've literally read, you know, 50 books on the subject You know, like I feel like I'm really educated on it in my desire to help and care for him

[01:04:55] You know, it's I didn't know that uh about you and your friend I knew you were focused on on mental health, but one of the closest people in my life is affected by bipolar and I didn't realize until I saw it in person face to face

[01:05:11] How how different bipolar is from how the Movies say portray it they they sort of portray like okay. Sometimes you're sad and sometimes you're really happy and maybe even really energetic

[01:05:22] It's not that way at all when someone's in mania. It's like the person you knew has checked out and something new and sort of Very horrible has checked in and that's why a lot of these people end up

[01:05:36] Homeless because they they create a scorched earth of community around them and also a lot of them end up dead They end up committing suicide like bipolar is a is it is almost a terminal disease so

[01:05:49] Why don't you think most people realize the the the severity of mental illnesses like bipolar borderline personality disorder like these are real You know neurological disorders yeah, I mean we We've just in the past decade started paying attention to it, you know and before that

[01:06:08] You know, I mean look at look at the culture of of having mental issues. You know, it's just been You know portrayed to be you know crazy people violent people, you know the portrayal The general message of it it's just not you know, it's not good

[01:06:26] No, I don't know what to do people literally don't when I talk to because I talk like this and they're like I don't even know what to say to you like how are we talking about this

[01:06:33] Like we have to talk about it. You know, this is a real thing you know what We see that you know the human development of your brain your brain can handle just about anything But you need to learn in doses and you need to

[01:06:48] You know, your brain's made of plastic. It'll consume change do anything you want it to good or bad um, but You know people don't understand their brain They don't know, you know when everything you put in it is a computer

[01:07:02] You're just recording everything you do it becomes who you are And it becomes how you are People don't think about that. You know people don't think of your mind as a you know As a space you need to develop and but but even with mental illness though

[01:07:19] Sometimes it goes one step further, which is that that computer has faultly programming. Yeah, and the person who's the the let's let's call The the person who has the illness he or she

[01:07:32] Can't necessarily control how that input is coming in anymore or what the output is or they're having problems with that And and I think I think awareness of that sort very important. For instance, you know, there's been a lot of news

[01:07:47] Uh in the past year about police brutality and police, you know killing people, um, you know, it's the whole um, you know, very important issue black lives matter

[01:07:58] But what a lot of people don't realize is that 61 of those lives are mentally ill people and and that were, you know Killed Because the police didn't realize they were mentally ill Uh, a serious issue

[01:08:15] So so how can we all work to raise awareness of this? Well, I think it starts by um Repositioning the conversation You know, we're we're all Talking about an illness that nobody can see

[01:08:29] You know, it's a lot people don't believe it. Yeah, let's say some people don't believe it Some people are against it some people culturally can't accept it. It's not okay like, you know, and You know where where I was affected was understanding it's an idea

[01:08:42] It's not anything other than an idea your brain is different than my brain And you know, some of these people are super high functioning in some areas and some some areas they can't You know do much but

[01:08:54] We're all the same human being we all have the same needs desires like we all are the same person We all want to be useful. We all want to be valued. We all want to have purpose

[01:09:03] We all want to have a community and you know, when you say, okay, you're sick You're never going to get better take these pills and by the way, we're not going to hang out with you because you're weird

[01:09:12] You're literally giving them a death sentence. You're putting them off to pasture and it's like Nobody in their right mind understanding mental illness would do that Because the idea of mental illness is hey, we need to pull them in this community

[01:09:27] We need to get them involved. We need to get them purpose. We need to get them activated because how else can we maximize that human being? They're not sick They're just different right and it's like until we start having the conversation of difference

[01:09:39] And idea, you know, yeah, there's an illness there, but it's a human You know malady that can be treated with human interactions It's not like You know my legs falling off. This is literally something where two people can start making progress now

[01:09:56] Just by hey, you need some help You look a little down You want to go for a walk? Like it's so easy to begin the actions But no one wants to talk about it like I talked to people and they're like I

[01:10:10] We can't talk about that like why not You know we have to talk about it or it's going to become it's still that that thing and then as long as that thing

[01:10:19] You know people are going to disparage it and people they're going to believe silly things and people are going to spread you know rumors and you know people are gonna You know give it what it's been given which is a real bad, you know a bad face well

[01:10:35] Frank shamrock Who I've stolen so liberally from over the years Don't charge for that No, I'll give you full credit from now on plus minus equal It's actually the greatest learning technique I've ever used for my own self

[01:10:49] But all these all these issues we talked about up up and you know including the mental illness So important so fascinating to meet you and see the arc of how you've sort of transformed yourself again and again You know to conquer these these battles in your life

[01:11:05] An honor to meet you and I'm so glad you came on the podcast. Thanks for having me. Thank you