The Dual Sides of Victory | NFL Star Malcolm Jenkins

[00:00:06] What will winners not tell you? Well, let's find out from a winner. So Malcolm Jenkins wrote the book what winners won't tell you he's won two Super Bowls and Told me a bunch of things I didn't know which is one is that 80% of athletes despite having

[00:00:21] multi-year multi-million dollar contracts eventually go broke and he talks about how he avoided that and his investing strategy We also talked about all the stuff that went on with football players and activism during BLM and up to the present day and

[00:00:36] You know his role as an activist and he told me a lot of interesting things that surprised me and it all kind of worked out together I don't know. I think you're gonna find this fascinating. Let's get into it

[00:00:48] This isn't your average business podcast and he's not your average host This is the James Altucher show Let me just ask you that you're recently retired in the past few years from football. What's a typical day like for you right now?

[00:01:14] You know one of the hardest things for me to figure out once I left the game Was how to create my own schedule like everything in football is so regimented where they schedule what time you wake up

[00:01:27] What time you come in a building what time you eat lunch what time you go to practice what time to work out all the way through You know throughout and for the first time, you know since I was probably seven

[00:01:37] I don't have that and so I've had to really create my own structure And so I spent about half the month in New Orleans my kids are in New Orleans

[00:01:46] So I'm I'm in the Matrix what I like to call it. I'm making breakfast taking them to school soccer practice all those things Then the other two weeks, you know, I'm bouncing around them in Philly LA, New York Taking care of some of the business things

[00:01:59] So I'm doing this kind of like dual dual life where you know I'm a dad full-time about half the month and then I'm knocking out all the other business business responsibilities and the other half Yeah, because you you were did a very good job of

[00:02:14] Kind of diversifying the pay you're getting as a football player into multiple businesses and we'll get into that And also you've been involved in a lot of the social activism that happened in the NFL

[00:02:25] During the past decade and we'll find out about that too. I hope you don't mind I'm gonna ask some really naive questions. That's fine. I don't really I didn't really pay much attention to

[00:02:36] The kneeling versus not me. I don't really well. We'll get to it in a second first I want to know like you're one you're a great football player. You've been in the Super Bowl won the Super Bowl What This again, I feel like these are all dumb questions

[00:02:51] But what separates that like a Super Bowl winning player from like just the average player Yeah, I mean I think You know obviously talent is always in the equation but when you play at the highest level of

[00:03:08] Football or sports, whatever your profession is talent everybody has talent, right? And so really the difference makers are the small things what I've learned is is that teams or players who have better processes than the other players usually are

[00:03:24] More consistent and I think when you talk about a football season and how do you get to a championship? You have to stack up a bunch of wins along the way

[00:03:31] You got to win in crucial moments and then obviously win the big one and all of that comes down to process It's really not about the results about what team has the best process that can go from week to week and improve

[00:03:43] Every single time they touch the field that doesn't happen on game day that happens all throughout the week and for me You know my game really didn't Escalade, you know until I figured out how to create my own process I got behind guys like Drew Brees

[00:03:57] Jonathan Billmo who I just got to sit and watch how they prepared for games weekend and week out And it became very apparent to me that that's why they are the players that they are that's why they'll end up in all

[00:04:08] I mean like what do they do process is better. Yeah, so so Drew Brees is saying is you know He takes a snap it'll throw the ball But after the play still going on he's let go to ball. He'll go through the rest of the breeze

[00:04:20] He's the first one to show up so he's studying, you know his film but not everything He's doing certain things on certain days and John Bill was the same way And so for me what I had to do was I knew on Mondays

[00:04:32] I was gonna review the game take from the previous game and then put that to bed Tuesday was me gonna watch Three or four games that aren't in the coaches cut-ups

[00:04:41] So I can see things that the coaches hadn't presented to us yet when you say three or four games What does it mean like three or four just random games or from the week ender? Yeah

[00:04:51] So usually our coaches will they'll put together a cut-up of about five games And that's what they coach us on throughout the week, right? So they'll take our opponent five games They think we should watch and those will watch all those plays throughout the week

[00:05:04] What I like to do is because obviously teams do more than what's in those five games I like to break down at least three or four games outside of the coaches break down

[00:05:13] So there's any plays that you know aren't on these other tapes that they ran only against this other team way Early in the season. I'll see those and I'll take note And then the rest of the week Wednesday Thursday Friday is diving into the game plan

[00:05:28] Understanding what we're doing is a defense and then Friday or Saturday put it back all together. I'm watching TV copies I like to listen to the quarterbacks cadence I like to hear the the crowd and because I can feel the cadence of a play-caller as well

[00:05:42] Like how do they handle pressure situations? What do they like to do when it's a turnover and then once I get to Sunday, you just play You allow all of those things that you've done play this over ten times in your head

[00:05:56] So that when you get to the Sunday, you just play and you trust your instincts You trust your preparation and when I began to kind of implement those things after watching those veterans around me The guys that you know have all the success

[00:06:08] You realize that success is easily replicated when you have a process to get there and and actually the result of the game It's it's actually not the the game that you win in the process It's interesting because when you talk about preparation, you're not necessarily talking about

[00:06:24] I'm sure you did a lot of physical training and prep during the season and maybe off season as well but you're talking about a Looking at the previous nights game, you know if it's on a Monday, you're talking about Sunday's game where you analyze

[00:06:37] I guess your own play where you could have read, you know understood something differently how you could learn from it and so on then you're kind of Breaking down your next opponents like I noticed in the book at one point

[00:06:50] You're analyzing a quarterback in this case Tom Brady that you can't really trust his movement So you're watching his center and if the guy does a sharp Snapback probably means Tom Brady's gonna Hand it off to a running back if it's a more slow snapback

[00:07:08] He's probably means he's gonna pass or things like that things that you look for when you look at the five extra games Oh, yeah, you look for for all kind of things

[00:07:16] I mean, you know, I look I look at it let's say I like to learn what the coordinators are gonna call So offensive coordinators usually have you know packages for specific defenses So I'll look at all the games in which the other teams defense plays my defense

[00:07:32] Because we'll get to see how they attacked it which is likely going to be how they're gonna attack us So my week was like really broken down into like it starts in the beginning. We're studying myself

[00:07:41] What did I do, you know good or bad in the last game? What do I think teams will try to do to me if there are any weaknesses I need to improve on and that we can practice then it transitions to

[00:07:52] Us as a team and the opponent. How are we gonna handle what the opponent does? So we're studying the plays We're studying their tendencies what their personnel likes to do and then the end of the week I like to study my matchups essentially

[00:08:05] So who am I matched up with what are the things that one-on-one are gonna help me So that's like what you're talking about where do I put my eyes are the linemen telling me if his runner pass and tied in

[00:08:15] Do they like to run what type of routes today run and then by the time I get to game day It's really just about putting all of that together and understanding. Okay, what plays am I gonna make?

[00:08:24] What plays do I need to stop and then the rest of it You just allow the preparation that you you build up over that of course a time to play itself out And and and then you show up on Monday and do it all over again

[00:08:36] The teams who can stay in that have the most success What's an example of a Monday where you're looking back at the previous game and you were like man

[00:08:44] I sucked last yesterday like I miss this this and this like what was something what you really learned on a Monday That changed the way you played

[00:08:53] I think though the biggest thing was is always that it's never as good as you think it is and he's never as bad They're in games were you know, I've missed a couple tackles and in my mind

[00:09:03] I felt like oh, I'm terrible. You know, this is over with I'm not gonna be a starter soon if I keep playing like this You're worried about those things and then you go back and evaluate it and you realize that yes

[00:09:15] I missed those two tackles, but I made a ton of play and What is it? Misses tackle like yeah, like the guy ran past you and and yeah my job Yeah, my job is the safety is to get anybody with the ball has to get on the ground

[00:09:28] And that's easier said than done obviously these guys are really big really fast But my job is to put ball carriers on the ground and so when you miss those things like I've had Sean Payton

[00:09:39] Tell me one time that a safety that can tackle is somebody else's safe And this is after I missed a couple tackles in the game. So so there's pressure. Yeah, there's pressure There's definitely pressure, but it's a very simple task though. You know, it's difficult

[00:09:53] But it's simple and so it's just about okay well Then how do I this week work on my tackling to make sure that that's not a problem and like anything when it's competitive when people Study you and they see flaws in your game

[00:10:07] You'll be sure that you'll see that same people keep attacking that same weakness until you fix so weekend and week out You'll see opponents Continue to do whatever it is that you're bad at until you fix it. And so that's why it's very very important

[00:10:21] You know, I think it is exactly like any any competition. They're studying you they watch They're watching the mistakes you make they're watching how you move your strength your weaknesses And if you don't improve on those somebody's gonna catch up to you eventually

[00:10:34] So I'm always curious about this like in some sports or other activities The coach is someone who has experience both playing and coaching So he's able to look at these videos and see the same things you can see from a player's perspective

[00:10:47] But then has the experience as a coach to look at it from a coach's perspective When you're looking at these videos, who actually sees the nuances better you or the coach? Well, I'm not the one who has to play it every week Yeah

[00:10:59] I think the I think the assumption is that the coaches know what it's like to play and the truth is most of them do not You have some coaches that are former players But most of them can coach out of the book and tell you things

[00:11:11] But don't know how it actually feels to execute those movement And so for me there are things that I'm gonna get from a coach There's gonna be a lot of information a lot of tendencies They do all the analytics and they'll give you a sheet, you know

[00:11:24] Or a book about this big about all of the the numerics and tendencies that team time I don't need all of it You know So my job is to take the information that I need and I can use and then the rest of it is is

[00:11:37] Understanding myself my opponent what I'm studying how my position you know How these things affect me and how I play my particular role with everybody else on the defense and When you have everybody prepared in that you know for their particular role

[00:11:51] I don't need to know all of the runs, you know I'm I know they know all the past plays though. I need to know the third down situation I need to know two minute red zone

[00:11:59] But I don't need to know you know what the offense is doing or all the special teams play So it is a game of distilling what information is is Useful which what is not and then making sure that you keep all that stuff at top of mind

[00:12:15] Now as the safety you're playing all the way back, right? So how often are you there when the offensive play is executed? So like let's say it's a pass. Yeah, are you mostly Involved after they catch the ball and they're running towards the end zone

[00:12:30] You have to tackle them or are you there when they're catching the ball? Well, the beauty about my game and this is this is really what I enjoy the most is I played about five different positions So I never just played deep, you know, I played deep safety

[00:12:44] I played down closer to line scrimmage I played out wide at the corner of spot like I've literally played almost every position on the defense And that that is the role that I like the versatility to constantly be around the football

[00:12:57] One of the things I used to hate early in my career was only playing safe and I'm 20 yards away from the ball It was like I had the best seat in the guest in the house Basically, I was just watching the game unless something really bad happened, right?

[00:13:09] Then I got to make a tackle in a lot of space or stop a deep pass But when I was able to change my position and get versatile and move around to get the ball or move around the field

[00:13:19] I got closer to the football. I made more plays and it allowed me to really understand the defense Because I had to know all of these different positions. So I knew what everybody was going to be doing

[00:13:29] I could correct my teammates. I could play off of them. I can make adjustments You know that knowledge of kind of that expensive knowledge of what we were doing as a defense allowed everybody else to

[00:13:39] Hone in on their own job and it was my job to kind of be the glue that connected everybody Do you miss it? No I miss nerding out about the game like obviously I can talk about football all day. I love watching it, but you know, I

[00:13:56] Remember what playing football feels like and and I enjoy not waking up with my body hurting You know, I enjoy waking up on Mondays and and then able to run in and play with my kids things like that

[00:14:07] So I gave the game everything I had I played it You know for 13 years and even longer when you count college high school and in doubt I have nothing else, you know to prove. So when I watch it, I actually am a huge fan

[00:14:20] I love seeing the new generation of guys play the game is changing so much so rapidly that You know, I don't I don't have time to really Try to project myself in it. I'm really just watching

[00:14:31] It seems like if you're an offensive coach if you're the coach of the offense It's an easier job than being the defense coach Like if I'm an offense coach, I could come up with all sorts of plays and ideas like oh

[00:14:44] The quarterback should fake to this guy but then throw to this, you know, you could come up What you can be creative. How do you as a defense coach? You have to it seems a lot harder. You have to really know

[00:14:55] How the other side plays like that they're gonna probably throw to this wide receiver on the third down and you have to really know How they play and then what's a play on the defense? Do you say okay?

[00:15:06] I want you two guys on this guy all the time because he gets the most passes and It's he you have to be much more reactive to and and have a lot more knowledge about how the other team plays to be a defense coach it feels like I

[00:15:17] Think is I think it's balanced to be honest I think the offense because you're what you're trying to balance right is defensively I've had defensive coaches that try to put every scheme and blitz and all these exotic things in there

[00:15:30] Right and the hard part about that is executing it. We only get three practices a week You know, so you get three and you don't practice everything on each day

[00:15:39] So on third down we practice that one day and in that one day if you install a new blitz We probably probably practice it three times and then they're going to a game and try to execute that most times you get blown

[00:15:51] Coverage is missed assignments because you're surely gonna get a formation or motion of shift that you didn't prepare for So it's actually not in your best interest to be overly complicated because you still have the human era

[00:16:03] You know that you have to account for guys have to be able to execute this on a large stage With great pressure amongst them right so so it's about like how do we become? Complicated enough to not be figured out by the opponent

[00:16:16] But also simple enough that we can execute this no matter what in any situation And I've always been a fan of simplifying the defense because I don't care what the offense is doing If I know our defense in and out

[00:16:30] then there is only certain ways that they can attack this defense and if we don't have to spend time Installing because we already know it then we can fin spend time Studying how teams want to attack us and so when they think they're you know

[00:16:43] They think they've drawn some cool play up that they're gonna get you with You're sitting there in a game ready for because you know yourself better than they know you and you know exactly how they're gonna try to attack

[00:16:54] If your defense is simple though won't they and they're studying you won't they know like okay? There's always kind of a gap between these two guys here. They focus on this guy Let's fake that we're gonna throw to this guy, but really hand it off to this guy

[00:17:09] Yeah, I mean you would think that right but I know that too So I know that that gap is always open So I'm pretty sure if you have to get there so your formations all your things are gonna tell me if you're trying to get to my weakness

[00:17:21] A great example it is and this is somebody this is really where I got the philosophy from My favorite secondary of all times the Legion of Boom when it was Richard Sherman Cam Chancellor Earl Thomas

[00:17:33] Those guys in Seattle when they won us they were dominating one of Super Bowl they played four defenses the entire game They run a traditional cover three with maybe two or three variations of it and then man That was pretty much it

[00:17:47] But they were the best defense in the league because they knew it like experts every single person knew their assignment And they knew how teams wanted to attack them because they knew the defense so well I've been with coaches where you your show If the

[00:18:02] Playbook is so robust that as a player you only have enough bandwidth to know what you're supposed to do So when you get you know an elaborate formation or something you haven't seen before

[00:18:12] You're not able to problem solve because you only know this small portion of you know What you're doing because there's so much you're holding in your head So when you can shrink that down and simplify things and then everybody's experts at their jobs

[00:18:25] And it's much easier to to try to Defend against plays that the offense is that are running them these both it's usually not their bread and butter either Right. They're trying to get to your weakness with something that's not their strength And so we'll take that all day

[00:18:41] Do you ever think about coaching now? I do honestly, I love the game enough. I love teaching But I retired with with money on the table. So I walked away from the game coaches put in an insane amount of time and

[00:18:57] So I figured if I was gonna leave the game, I wasn't gonna go put in more time for less money I think I just take that time to really spend with my kids

[00:19:07] Develop my businesses and family but I do feel like you know at some point in time Maybe when life settles down a little bit that I'll probably get that it's the coach

[00:19:17] But it's I mean, you know, I have a lot of knowledge of the game and how it translates How to coach players how to teach. It was a lot of what I did in the locker room

[00:19:27] But for now, you know, I just I'll just keep giving out free game. Do you think? Data will play a role more and more in the in the future of coaching So like, you know how like in the movie and book money ball with baseball they could determine

[00:19:57] Oh, a guy who walks a lot is more valuable than a guy who hits a lot of home runs Is there similar sort of data that's occurring with the NFL? For instance, you have data about the amount of impact you receive during a game

[00:20:08] You know, you're right. You're wearing all sorts of stuff that reports this data How useful is data right now to being a great NFL team? Yeah, if you know how to use it data is amazing and one of the things that I was fortunate enough to go through

[00:20:23] Is Chip Kelly's program when he came into the NFL Chip Kelly came from the college ranks He brought all of the sports science stuff that he had in Oregon with him And that was like Olympic, you know grade kind of technology and analytics

[00:20:38] So they were monitoring sleep hydration your muscle fiber qualities. They're giving you nutrition Nutritional shakes right after things there. They schedule the meetings only a certain amount of time Because they know that the human brain can only focus for a certain amount of time

[00:20:55] And all of that just made you a more aware player like our business is our bodies So the more information we know about our bodies and how they perform How they grow how they get stronger how they need to recover the better athlete you are and

[00:21:10] And we already see it in like like you said like money ball We're doing it more in a valuation standpoint. So your scouts and things like that That's where I think it gets interesting when because there's a company now that I've invested in called Nestri

[00:21:23] Would they do like the cognitive? They're a cognitive strength training Company and what they do is do a baseline evaluation on your cognitive, you know abilities and And they can build on them through this Training program. So you're working memory your reaction time. You're all of these things

[00:21:42] They can one evaluate so they know if you're good under pressure They know if you have a good working memory They know, you know all these things about just how your brain functions and then it can build on them

[00:21:53] I think that is yeah, that is really the next wave of like what's the name of the company Nestri? They are based out of Orlando, Florida And they do some Yeah, it's

[00:22:07] It's it's it's a it definitely blows your mind when you started thinking about it when because sports has always been neck down training All right, and then all of a sudden now you have this innovative

[00:22:18] Company who was only focused on the neck up and there's it's so wide open that I think The first teams and athletes to adopt that in a serious way are gonna see some some tremendous result

[00:22:30] Is it easy to be? Oh, I see they work with a lot of NFL people Is it easy to be a customer like an IV a customer? Yeah, yeah, you go down this is they have an app that you can do like daily usage with mindset

[00:22:45] Content framing things and little brain games you can play but the real experience is when you go down to their campus And you you put on the cap that has all of the

[00:22:55] Pod that scan your brain and they can see all of your brain activity if your brain is working too hard It means underperforming And all of these things that we usually think are just personality traits are usually fun or functionalities of our brain

[00:23:09] And they can train, you know train you to change the function of your brain And they've done it with performance, but they've also done it from a recovery standpoint where players who've had really bad Brain injuries concussions things like that have come to them

[00:23:24] And seen tremendous results wouldn't it talk like recovering from those injuries and and getting back to kind of their baseline and then even perform from there So interesting. Well, what other kind of businesses are you invested in?

[00:23:38] Yeah, I'm I am mainly in you know tech and consumer goods Franchising is the main part of my portfolio, but my newest, you know Kind of craves in business is is human performance as an athlete. It's something that I know Because I've done it

[00:23:57] I've been in programs where we've used all of these technologies to obviously enhance our physical performance But I think it's to a point now as a society where we are losing a little bit of faith in our healthcare system

[00:24:10] And we're looking for you know more power on our own to take our health into our own hands So we're looking at more people working out more people You know taking diets and things like that and taking their health, you know into their their own hands

[00:24:23] I think companies like that who can assist people with wellness with weight training diet things like that are really kind of the next wave of Really human performance, you know, it's interesting. It's a weird area to invest in like if I think about it

[00:24:40] I can't think of any company that You know one could invest it in the human performance area where it was like a home run It became like the Google of human performance, you know, they sort of grow slowly

[00:24:54] It's it's based on sales and word-of-mouth and you don't really see them get sold or IPO for like big amounts So like what were your considerations when you were looking at Nestry for instance? Yeah

[00:25:06] So one of the things we have to look at when it comes to like change performance The majority of it has been through the medical sector. All right, so you've got to go through, you know

[00:25:16] That whole thing and that's more prescriptive. All right if we can't prescribe something to fix it then That's really all our healthcare that health care system does this is more from the performance standpoint or lens Right where we know these things exist and one of the

[00:25:34] Analogies that I really brought it home for me was the idea of like weight training Weight training is a fairly new phenomenon Even in sports, maybe like the 40s 50s don't quote me on the years

[00:25:47] But it most college programs and even the pros did not use weight training as part of their weekly routine It wasn't until the University of Nebraska introduced weight training as a as a tool to

[00:25:59] Reduce the amount of injuries their players were having and then they went on to win three state national championships Then all of a sudden every college program and in the country had a weight training program including professional athletes Which then trickled down to the society at large now

[00:26:14] You can't go to a hotel or any kind of club without a weight room or gym and things like that Living wage is now just a daily part of our society. I see nestry and

[00:26:24] Brain performance as the same way we're obviously on the front end of that but I see that potential and to me That's where kind of that's where I want to be like what are the next cutting edge?

[00:26:33] You know things that we can invest in that makes sense to me that I think can make you know mankind better so like like with nestry if and

[00:26:43] You don't have to answer if you don't want to but like where do you what kind of exit do you see? So like you invested at some valuation. I don't know what it was somewhere

[00:26:52] Let's say between five and ten million give or take you invested some amount of money and How do you see it growing and exiting like when when do you think you'll exit from this investment? I Mean, you know, I think any investment

[00:27:05] We're you looking for at least five or ten years that you know those usually those kind of windows and I know it's a startup and usually my Investment strategy is to invest in late to growth stage companies

[00:27:19] This is an early stage company. And so I know and because it's former athletes They're two black founders and it's very near and dear to my heart Obviously being a football player knowing how many guys are suffering from brain injuries and concussions

[00:27:34] It's one of those things that I believe you know for me is not necessarily about the exit It's about helping this grow and knowing that in ten years I can see this being something that's bigger and then

[00:27:44] Then we talk about you know exiting but I think it's something that needs obviously some assistance to kind of get off The ground right now. This is like a passion investment Like, you know the company will can will exist ten years from now

[00:27:56] Which means it'll probably be bigger than it is now and it's something you're passionate about It's related to what you did whereas franchising is something that's more almost like a formula like okay the average Wendy's franchise does this this this as you know, 18% growth per year

[00:28:11] I go in like this and eventually, you know, there's always people out there I could sell a bunch of franchises too. So so that is kind of a more like give me an example of like where you're in a franchise Yeah, so we started we're at about 20

[00:28:25] Units right now. We started with five Papa John's and have scaled that up all in the East Coast Jersey up to Maine and now we're moving into Winstop. So quick service restaurants are where we focus

[00:28:39] And like I said, we've grown that that portfolio mainly in Papa John's but are now according Some other franchises to build that we want to have a hundred plus units And be one of largest black franchise even in the country

[00:28:54] And and is the idea that the more franchises you own of the same brand like Papa John's in this case There's back-end costs that you could reduce like what's the benefit of owning multiple Papa John's as opposed to diversifying across

[00:29:06] You know many different types of chains. Yeah, where'd you get your foot in the door somewhere, right? And then you stick to what you know. So I think for us that was our kind of way in the door They had a really good onboarding

[00:29:19] Deal at the time and when we got in they went through some hard times We were able to weather that storm and then grow and have been doing great and since then because franchising is very much an

[00:29:30] operational business we we do really well with operations. And so we've had other You know companies come to us to try to get started. So now we're not searching for deals

[00:29:41] We're actually wearing our options and taking the best ones and looking for the most opportunities to get into other franchises Some of sometimes it might be a flagship blue chip franchise But the cost to get into it is too high, you know

[00:29:54] Or it might be the other way around where people are trying to offload stores, but it's just not the Best store to get into so for us, you know

[00:30:02] We know that we have our operations down and we can keep that process and that formula going for as long as we need as We scale we're just trying to do it, you know

[00:30:10] Conservatively do it with obviously the most opportunistic endeavors and then we're trying to recruit others too There's a part of you know my peers that want to get into franchising

[00:30:20] I didn't know much about it before, you know, we jumped into it and now there's an opportunity to scale by growing just the education base and Recruiting other athletes that want to get that exposure. We're like hey, we can take care of the operation

[00:30:34] Let's just all put the money together so we can scale this to something that none of us could have done That's great because you couldn't a you could get you can organize yourself Like almost like a hedge fund where other athletes get to participate in your

[00:30:48] You know management ability of buying and running and owning Franchises or you could charge let's say take a small piece of ownership of a franchise if you educate someone and how and make the introduction

[00:31:00] So so an athlete, you know buys a franchise and and starts to get into that business You can go in a couple different directions with that. Yeah, we call it athletes franchise partners

[00:31:09] So we already straddle that vehicle and I've had I've actually had teammates that have been into franchising That we've been able to mentor I've had my team take a look at their stores see how the operating

[00:31:20] Give them some assistance and some some tips also and even like resources to make sure that those stores can survive Because we've done it now like we feel confident in our operations and our ability to execute and and we're able to

[00:31:35] Pass that knowledge around to those who look like us and who need it Which is very very that's a very very important part of building wealth, especially in black and brown communities

[00:31:43] The educational part being able you know to stand people up not only with the finances, but with the know-how To get things done. Yeah, it's so interesting like First of all with franchising it's interesting because you have to be able to evaluate

[00:31:59] That this is like like you said a good company a company that does good franchise Like you're getting value when you buy into it Like like there's the famous story of Boston chicken where

[00:32:09] You know might have been expensive to buy a franchise and then they were lending people money To buy the franchise so they were getting into too much debt And it was just all a house of cars

[00:32:18] They were lending money to buy but then the franchise weren't doing well So they they weren't getting they were getting fees until the money right out They had to keep raising money and then eventually it all collapsed Whereas Papa John's you could say okay

[00:32:30] You're getting value these are the average returns of a Papa John's and the company's not drowning in debt They're not doing anything kind of pyramid scheme like it's it's like subway is probably legit as well

[00:32:41] McDonald's very much. Yeah, and in the same way I talked about venture capital our strategy Of like laden growth stage companies. It's the same in franchising We're not going to you know, put all our money or our eggs in one basket on a new

[00:32:55] Concept that hasn't really proven itself and and you don't see where the support is and all those things We started with blue chip franchises Knowing that the support was there the notoriety is there

[00:33:04] You're not trying to educate the public on what this brand is and what they do And we can build there and once we've got our you know got a nice foundation in our feeling ground We'll take some some chances on some of those new concepts

[00:33:17] That you know may show some promise and we've been courting some of those recently But the first part of our phase was really phase one was just establish a solid ground base of Stores and with a franchise that is proven and you know, isn't going anywhere anytime soon

[00:33:35] Well, let me ask you to think about Papa John's Let me ask your advice on this the founder of Papa John's I forget his name now I assume it's John, but I'm totally forgetting his name

[00:33:43] Yeah, he I guess wrote a book. He was going to come on the podcast and I was doing my research I didn't know anything about him and I saw that he Said some things that were yeah, he said the n word a couple times

[00:33:56] Yeah, like really racist and I canceled the podcast at the last minute And what do you think I should have done? No, I think that was appropriate. Um, I would have that that that happened six weeks after we got into the Papa John's franchise

[00:34:12] So we opened five stores and within six weeks all that news broke of his Racial slurs and things like that and then we had three million, you know invested at that point So we couldn't just cancel the podcast So we had to weather that

[00:34:28] Yeah, we had to weather that storm but obviously, you know That was a tough time for the company and then eventually they brought in or got rid of him brought in shag

[00:34:37] And it made a lot of changes. I think they this is the second CEO we've been on now Since that time, but it's been really for the better the company's been growing

[00:34:46] Has really recovered from that far of the pandemic in 2020 was huge for quick service restaurants that that had very um small square footage because they were able to operate and deal with deliveries and all those things

[00:34:59] So that that helped recover and then since all the things that they've done to reestablish the brand the things They've done in the community And the brand and the messaging that's been going on ever since has really been Encouragingly Why why did he?

[00:35:14] You know, and this reminds me of the guy who owned the clippers Sterling Why are it's just a are they like an older generation like why I have in my entire life

[00:35:24] I will tell you I have never heard anyone use the n word, you know other than rappers so You know Yeah, tell me tell me. Yeah um The first time I got to Ohio When I got to Ohio State, I had a teammate use the n word

[00:35:43] And I was just like I don't you know, I'm a kid out in new jersey and didn't You know, I was really caught off guard because I'm like, what word where am I at?

[00:35:52] You know, it's like what world is this? I grew up in a really diverse town But going to a place and being called in where it was was definitely something that's happened And it's not unique obviously to me and it does still happen

[00:36:03] I think we live in a place, you know a time where we we want to feel like we're past these type of things But I think if you know not to get into politics or anything like that But I think you know if anything we really paid attention

[00:36:15] We should have these things have never really gone away. In fact, they're gaining steam Uh as time goes on No, and I and I believe you like so this teammate he called you this word

[00:36:25] He wasn't using it like he wasn't like a black guy and using the word He was trying to he's like, what's up? And I'm like, I don't play like that. Like I don't this is not I don't know where you grew up or where you're from

[00:36:37] But this is not how I get down You know, and so it wasn't one of those where I felt like he was trying to demean me but it also was one where there's No understanding of the context in the depth of you know, what those words mean

[00:36:52] Where they come from the the feelings that they conjure and and to me that's you know So when you see people in these closed circles or you know, these these situations where It's found out that somebody's using them is usually

[00:37:06] You know when they think or believe that they are safe and they can do this behind closed doors and it won't affect them Or they can get away with it with from somebody who isn't as powerful as they are but you know In a good and bad way

[00:37:20] I think the amount of exposure that those things have gotten At least showcases that there are some consequences for your words. This is the land of free speech. You can say whatever you want But you are not exempt from the reactions or the consequences of those words

[00:37:35] Do you think do you think things at all? get have gotten better in the past few decades or Or you think it's just kind of more hidden or slanted in different ways now Uh, like as far as race relation Yeah, just there's race relations and then there's racism

[00:37:52] Yeah, oh no racism is well and alive um I think you know people We hear a lot of people say like the country's divided now um and I really Don't feel that way. I think you know, it's divided because we're finally having real conversations out loud

[00:38:13] Uh, and that that creates a lot of you know discomfort But I think racism if you you look at what's happening all around the country uh racism is baked into our society like it just is from the beginning to to where we currently are

[00:38:29] um, and so I think there are definitely more nuanced conversations about how we um Balance the scales somewhat but the idea of eradicating um Racism will first have to start with acknowledging its role in

[00:38:51] You know the foundations of our society and when we start to have those conversations That's where that that's where that kind of dissolves And so I think you know for us to really get to the place we want there has to be truth and reconciliation

[00:39:04] And we're in age where they're trying to ban books So I don't know. I don't know. We'll get there anytime soon You know you say one of the first steps is to acknowledge the roles playing in our current society like okay

[00:39:30] We know that it's been an ongoing discussion in policing appears. There's a lot of systemic racism where cops will shoot a black person or Black mentally ill, you know all all sorts of problems

[00:39:44] What's an area where you've encountered it kind of outside that I would look at housing um As a huge one right like When you know the history so so a lot of you know a lot of times I grew up, you know thinking Or not understanding why um

[00:40:01] White people were living out in the suburbs why black people were in these super populated hyper populated, you know pockets where Things a rundown. There's crime and things like that And you're wondering, you know, I one may just say well, this is just how the things are

[00:40:17] But when you really unpack it you realize that the projects that we've all known You know written off as these dilapidated places were built for white people They were occupied by white people and wasn't until white people. Yes

[00:40:30] It wasn't until the working class white people moved to the new suburbs Who buying houses who were investing in the american dream and this idea capitalism That then we were that's where black people feel that role

[00:40:43] Then when we wanted to come to the suburbs ran into situations like redlining And then in the south just flat out violence Where they just burn your whole your whole town down and so we started to follow those kind of like trends like okay

[00:40:57] Well, what does that do to home ownership black home ownership is the same rate as it was now as it was in the 60 Right. So none of that is improved. We look at the wealth gap white americans on average make about 10 times that of black american

[00:41:11] Like this thing these things don't happen by accident So for us to have a real conversation about you know racism We can even if we ended and decided not to You know be racist from today forward

[00:41:24] We still would have to deal with the 400 years of racism that we've already been You know been dealing with in the impacts of that and that's that's where we are right now

[00:41:32] That's where the real conversation has to be had is that not it's not just about you know Moving forward in a kumbaya way, but we have to reconcile What has been done how we've structured our society

[00:41:42] The things and effects that they just had and how it was really poisoned, you know our moral Standard really for living Yeah, I mean like And I wonder who's better at doing it like the government or People like like you educating people to own franchises

[00:42:00] That strikes me as incredibly valuable because if you look at let's say new york city where You look at the velocity was called the velocity of money in the different parts of new york city and velocity of money is If I make a dollar

[00:42:12] You know in on my street I'll just go across the street to the flower store and Buy a flower for my wife with that dollar and then that flower guy will go across the street to

[00:42:22] The deli guy and buy a sandwich with that dollar and the money stays The money one dollar might circulate eight times in the same area before it finally leaves the area Whereas in like harlem I don't know how it is right now, but for many decades

[00:42:36] Somebody would make a dollar and it would instantly leave harlem And that's why there's no money would get poured back into harlem because there was all the velocity of money was zero It would circulate not at all because let's say, you know somebody from

[00:42:50] Another part of town would own the laundry store another person would own the mcdonalds another person would own the shoe store And then none of them lived in harlem. Yeah

[00:42:57] I think we're to we're to refer to is something that I think like you said it is the solution at least if we can't get it Dr. Government the the self empowerment pieces group economics and it's and it's

[00:43:09] Lessons that have been lost over time because we used to do these things. There were you know, not only black wall street in Tulsa, Oklahoma Which we had dozens of commute black owned communities that were the dollars

[00:43:21] Circulated from back on businesses the black patron black businesses over and over and over again The majority of those those towns were burned down and destroyed Because nobody wants an empowered black

[00:43:33] Community that has their own money that can create their own politics and can move outside of the The racist construct that we have in our country But I do think the answer to the solution at least for black and brown folks is

[00:43:48] Collective economics the ability to take my dollar and put it to your business that is owned in my community The way to if we want to invest for us to pull money together in order to scale

[00:43:59] Right that it mitigates the risk. It allows us to get into other A plethora of investments so that if one falls These others make up for it We're right now we're at a place where our communities have been you know destroyed

[00:44:13] Our history has been erased and we have African-Americans in a state of survival Which means that they can only focus on them So even trying to talk about the team and in where to put my dollar

[00:44:25] I'm just trying to feed my kids and I think there's a there's a need Today to talk about from because there is a group of I think African-Americans that has ascended that has more than we have ever had And I think in that space

[00:44:40] The conversations about how we join that money together. How do we do business together? How do we create the infrastructures to to create that same scenario? Do you say it like where we can pass dollars one business to the next and that and that circulates right now?

[00:44:55] The infrastructure doesn't isn't there even we look at black banks Right the ability to hold your money or to get loans and business loans things like that Black banks have been decimated. It is on this less than 20 in the country

[00:45:08] um, and and if they and that they are still running they're very very limited and so It's it's a there's a need for infrastructure, um if there's going to be some real growth in a black community

[00:45:21] Yeah, and I'm just curious like so so a few years ago. I wrote I co-wrote a book with um, Charlene and Charlene the god, you know the radio host about racism and this was in the aftermath of of

[00:45:33] BLM and basically what happened was he set me up to interview All these people that he you know new and associated could educate me on issues and racism and I heard things I Never knew and couldn't even believe like I didn't know that for instance

[00:45:49] On average doctors prescribe less pain medication to black people than to white people that this one woman was explaining to me that basically from The data showed that doctors somehow thought

[00:46:03] Black people were more pain resistant. Yeah, which is just outrageous. Yeah. So black women die, you know have a hired death rate during birth Than anybody else because they're given less pain that The assumption is that they can deal with the pain

[00:46:19] and you know, I wonder like this doesn't seem to occur with other minorities in the u.s. And and like you said, there's a 400 year history. Do you think it is Related to the history the fact that

[00:46:31] Black people came here at least a large portion of them came here as slaves as opposed to many other immigrant groups And other minorities came here and in other capacities

[00:46:41] Yeah, absolutely. There's no way to to tether the history, you know where we are today and say that well only the last because even if you Even if you went through the last 50 years, right? there's been so much that we've had to To overcome in the last 50 60 years

[00:47:00] But that that is only the tip of the the iceberg. There was 400 more years of racism and child slavery and jim crowed and policies and war on drugs war on crime redlining like all of these things

[00:47:16] Contribute to where we are today a lot of the people who are in the government or who were in power We're alive when these things were being put together like

[00:47:25] So to think that we're so far removed from these histories that they no longer are relevant. They're very relevant We're living in the relative of all of the you know of that history

[00:47:35] That we we walk in it every day. We're trying to improve one and we may talk about it better It's not in your face as much as it used to be which is cool Um, I'm not worried about getting lynched today

[00:47:46] But but at the same time I am very much worried about you know, where my kids are going to go to school how you know what When I send them off into this world

[00:47:55] What world are they facing? Are they going to get a are they going to get a fair shot? Are they you know going to be harassed by You know authority figures are schools, you know going to

[00:48:07] Victim or bill and I don't for their hair or the way they walk or talk like the idea There there are still we're still fighting over books in history And so to to think that we are Somehow like past this this place where like racism isn't really that

[00:48:25] um You know prevalent is is just negligent Really is like you'd have to choose not to see what's going on right now To do you ever go back and look at your genealogy and see Like where your ancestors

[00:48:42] If they were I don't know if they were but if where they were slaves and and who the Who are the descendants of the slave owners from that time? Like like where does where where

[00:48:51] Where does your mind take you when you think about the history of your own family? Yeah, so I never I've never tried to trace my family back to It's roots in slavery. I've tried to chase my DNA back to pre-slavery So one of the things that

[00:49:08] You know it's tough as african-americans most of us don't know where we're actually from We are we were something before we were You know labeled a slave So my my family history doesn't start there. My family history starts on the coast of africa

[00:49:23] And so when I did my DNA tests and you know, I'm Banking this is the only information I have on some history. I did some one of those DNA tests and My maternal lineage is from Nigeria and my paternal lineage comes from Guinea-Missau So, you know, it's those

[00:49:41] And it and it and for me that led me that same question like, you know, where am I from? Where where's my history led me to take A few trips to africa and then I outlined that in the book

[00:49:53] And how impactful that was for me, you know to to have some sense of identity that my history didn't start slavery And unfortunately, that's kind of how we look at it like here in the states It's like, you know, okay

[00:50:05] Well, what plantation did you come from and realistically all of us came from the shores of africa? None of us are native here um And in that history, you know, it's been robbed and and it's a that's a that's a real thing to not know where you're from

[00:50:21] To not have a home base. This is the land of immigrants, right? But every immigrant can can think about their home base and Can can find a sense of identity in that where for a long time you even had african americans and Africans

[00:50:38] Not even identifying with one another Which tells you the depths of like the psychological Kind of like warfare that's been going on where I can see somebody who looks exactly like me I know my history comes from the shore of africa

[00:50:51] But I will not identify with that person and in fact, I might distance myself from that person Is a wild phenomenon and I think it's it's things like that that really showed me the depths of our collective brainwashing

[00:51:03] But also, you know, how used to it we are and we don't even think twice about those things You know and the nfl is an interesting place because by revenues is the largest sport by far in the united states

[00:51:15] I would guess this is true, which is that more than 50 percent of the players african american I don't know for sure about 70 something. Yeah, my 70 over 70% So when there's a protest in the nfl

[00:51:28] And and probably all the owners are white. So when there's a protest it really one. Yeah Yeah, so so like when collin cappernick You know started kneeling together and you had your own form for this you would raise your fist in the air

[00:51:43] What does it mean? What does the kneeling mean? it's it's really to point out the contradictions that We put out as a country. We say it's the land of the free And that you know all men are created equal and that is yet to be the truth

[00:52:01] And so it's about Use it was about taking the opportunity to where we knew we had the most eyes on us, you know, this is the most Of views we were going to get all all week all year

[00:52:13] Take that opportunity to put the this information in front of the public to make people deal with it because Waiting right, you know a lot of people would say like this is not the time or place to to do that

[00:52:25] I don't want to see that in a game It's like well when do you want to see it because you ignore it every other time? Right, we try to have these conversations and you're able to turn the channel swipe past it you know or ignore it and

[00:52:40] We're in a situation where we're trying to survive these are dire situations people's lives are being lost at the hands of police You know our kids education, you know the standard Where the quality is is poor and only getting worse the gaps that are between us

[00:52:56] Whether it be wealth would be health Education is are only getting wider um, and so The urgency is there from from the black community. We understand that we live it We know it and that's why it was essential for us to

[00:53:11] Or imperative for us to use those huge moments the platforms that we had to speak on that Um, we aren't the first athletes to do it. We won't be the last um, but I think it's one of those things where

[00:53:23] It's my question back is always like well, how long do you think We were going to be ignored without saying anything and and it seems like You know these protests

[00:53:36] I don't know how you judge success, but they they work like money was set aside the NFL set aside money to devote towards, you know social initiatives that The athletes were able to direct that money to some extent like do you feel that's been beneficial so far?

[00:53:50] I mean that that's been beneficial, but the protests are not aimed or we're not aimed at the NFL The protests were aimed at society And our government the things that we vote on how we govern ourselves The NFL can't solve racism

[00:54:07] It can help like all businesses can help and it's hiring practices and the way they do their business The money they give out the charities they support of course they can help But then the NFL is not the cause of racism nor is it a solution

[00:54:21] Those protests were aimed at society at large all of us as citizens have to take Responsibility for and it's all of us who are going to you know be the ones that change it

[00:54:31] Did you personally have to deal with people telling you hey, you know, don't do that like, you know That's not appropriate or blah blah blah. Yeah. I mean I got deft threats that people telling me, you know, when and where

[00:54:43] It was appropriate, you know, even teammates, you know, who disagree with what we were doing but That only tells me that it was an effective pro protest, you know, what a protest Yeah, we're protests. They're all like ignoring it. It's not working. Exactly. Right so so

[00:55:02] again, do you think there's any part of society that Where people are listening to people that it is improving or Do you think we've been kind of going down A path that's a little harder to see maybe

[00:55:15] I think there's just a lot on the table, you know, obviously I think I have a very narrow land Um, there are a lot of especially politically right It's always tough because some things take precedence right like in 2020

[00:55:29] You had the george floyd situation, but you also had global pandemic All right, and so you're you're tussling over how to get people's attention and when you're the minority, you know Your needs are also minority to the to the larger narrative, you know of the country and so

[00:55:47] part of it is is Being diligent about constantly making noise because closed mouths don't get fair um, but there is but you can't just wait for the world to suddenly hear you and you know

[00:56:01] Think that you're pulling our heart strings change your mind and then they'll set things up for you There has to be um, some things that we're going to do Uh amongst ourselves until the rest of the world catches up

[00:56:12] And I think that's both of that needs to be played So it's it's the political sphere we need to be active and understanding how that moves and affects us affects us but also on a local, you know family

[00:56:24] Um level making sure that our families have what they need making sure education is there making sure there's Knowledge about how money works in group economics Those are the things that will help us see some of the changes that we want

[00:56:40] And those are things that we can do on our own while we still fight for the legislative, you know Changes the policing changes The resources that are allocated, you know in our cities and towns like all of those things still need to happen

[00:56:54] We've tried I feel like one in the other But um, it's got to be full court pressure on all all in Yeah, that's uh You know and it it seems like you've always been like a step ahead of a lot of the athletes in terms of

[00:57:12] You know the the awareness of these things and the protests But also like in your book you mentioned how 80 of athletes end up going Broke at some point and we know the the amount of money that a lot of athletes in particularly the NBA

[00:57:27] You know the nba the nfl Major league baseball and maybe a few other sports And yet they still end up bankrupt and I can relate to that I made a lot of money at different points and when bankrupt it takes a while to really understand

[00:57:40] Money and you've been able to be aware of this and and help educate others like all together in your career How much money do you think you made just salary? Um, I think I made um Uh, probably just under 70 million I mean that's quite a bit. Yeah

[00:58:01] Something like that. Maybe maybe I think 60 60 million but uh, I mean you cut so You cut that in half obviously because of taxes and and agents. So let's say I made 30 um

[00:58:15] Yeah, and then of that you you I've made the majority of that in the back half of my career So I think the we get caught up with the numbers, right? And it's like well, how do you blow all of that and the the average player

[00:58:30] Only plays the the average NFL career is less than three years and the average NFL player makes I think it used to be less than but let's just say it's right out about a million dollars the average salary so you make two million and then

[00:58:46] Cut that in half Because of taxes So you have a million that you're supposed to live off over the rest of your life and the majority of the time You're going to try to live

[00:58:53] Somewhat better than you did in college that money doesn't last long is is the is the point, right? Um, as soon as you spend a dollar you're no longer a millionaire And that's really how things work with no You know when you've given your life to a game

[00:59:07] So you've probably never done an internship never had a job have no financial literacy or education Um, and you given everything put everything into being good on the field

[00:59:17] And now our in our society kind of laughs at you or expects you to be some savvy business person at the age of 23 When you know no one else functions like that even the idea but even idea budgeting We got paid every two weeks During the season alone

[00:59:35] So you only get paid from september to january first Then so you've got to figure out how to make that pay schedule stretch at least a year Then once you figure out how to do it for a year you realize

[00:59:47] Oh, no if I get cut injured or something like that and my career is over. I actually need to budget this For life Suddenly this this lifestyle of an NFL player really gets reduced down to the average Joe

[01:00:00] If you look at it like that, how can if I wanted to make my football money last the rest of my life Without like any kind of

[01:00:08] You know sophisticated investing if I just wanted to sit on it and make it last my budget would need to be that of You know a Joe Schmoe And and I think that we don't really understand it like that Because it's such a unique, you know plays

[01:00:22] We just see the the amount of somebody's contract go across the bottom of the ticker And it's usually a quarterback or receiver Who's making astronomical money, but the guy who's

[01:00:31] Barely active or special teams guy been in the league, you know only maybe one or two years and then it's out That's the average football player And we don't talk about those guys Yeah and that brings up a kind of

[01:00:47] Weird question, but did the special teams guys feel bad? Because they're all on the on the football field like a few minutes a game And nobody really they like you say they think of the quarterback the wide receiver. Oh, they're so-and-so

[01:01:01] There's a does anybody acknowledge the special teams guys. Oh all the time. I mean, you know the special teams We that's the one the fun thing about team sports is The outside of fanfare of course the quarterback, you know may get paid gets the

[01:01:17] He gets all the attention all those things But when it comes down to the success of a team The best teams are filled with people who know their role and their role might not be as big But it is equally as important

[01:01:30] And so the quarterback also has more responsibility than the special teams player nobody's saying that the special teams player blew the game for us Unless you're a kicker unless you're a kicker and you miss the kick then Then it's your fault, but uh

[01:01:44] But other than that, you know, it's like there's Any good team has people that have roles that are bigger and smaller But all good teams know that every single one of those roles is equally as important

[01:01:57] Yeah, no, it's so it's so interesting because uh, there's a lot of people on an nfl team Whereas on an mba team doesn't need as many people and uh So specifically well, well Malcolm you've had such a diverse

[01:02:12] story between the athletics the activism the financial aspect the educational aspect You know, it's really valuable that you wrote this book What winners won't tell you lessons from a legendary defender? You look like you're in good shape on the cover

[01:02:28] I got I got a better shape of getting older. I gotta get I gotta get into good shape But i'm not i'm not gonna be in the nfl anytime soon but um Good luck with this book and and thanks so much for coming on the podcast and

[01:02:40] You know, I appreciate it. Come on come on anytime you want if you got something Bring on the nestry guys and well, we'll talk that we'll get all too short your best without Sorry, sorry, just a nerd now. No some cognitive performance

[01:02:51] Yeah, I hope it's not one of those things though We're like when I was a kid everyone told me oh you have a really high IQ You took an IQ test and then I take the IQ test and it was like 75 or something like that So

[01:03:02] No, it's not there's not one of those. That'll probably Well, thanks again Malcolm. I appreciate it. Thank you