How to Take Control of Your Health Beyond DNA Destinies with Naveen Jain

[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, what a podcast with Naveen Jain. I originally had Naveen Jain on the podcast back in, I think it was either 2014 or 2015, so almost 10 years ago. And he remembered it perfectly. It was such a fun conversation. I've written about the conversation. He originally started Infospace, which was one of the original dot-com companies. He was worth over a billion dollars from that.

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And then more recently, he has started a company called Viome, which we spoke about. But most of all, we spoke about his new book, The Youth Formula, Outsmart Your Genes and Unlock the Secret to Longevity.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, just let it be known, and I told him this, I've had so many people talk about longevity and how we're going to live forever and health. You know, I'm almost tired of it.

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_00]: But he has a very unique take. We spoke about how about 99.999% of your body is made up of over 100 million microbes or bacteria or whatever you want to call it. And so his whole point is that we all think our DNA is so important to our health.

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's been kind of a nonstop message from a lot of people and companies and experts and so on, that DNA is destiny.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_00]: If your ancestors or parents or grandparents had, you know, heart disease or Alzheimer's or diabetes or whatever, then there's a good chance you could have it.

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And he made the point that, well, if 99.9% of our body is made up of all these bacterias and microbes, then what about all the DNA of all that bacteria and all those microbes?

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So that has an effect also. And it's kind of been proven that the DNA of all those bacteria is maybe even more important than our own DNA.

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And we talked for a little bit about fecal transplants, which are what they sound like and how if like in fecal transplants, sometimes you even get the personality or other diseases or cures of the people whose fecal matter is getting transplanted into you.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was a weird discussion about this and what the research is. And also the question is if we can inherit like personality characteristics from people just based on getting essentially transplanted their poop, then who are we?

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Like who is the real self? Who is the real James, for instance, if personality traits like, for instance, depression or not depression, Alzheimer's or not Alzheimer's, diabetes or not diabetes could just be transplanted this way.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And we talked about that and what that means for our own health. And then we got to the heart of things, which is how to transform your own bacteria. And we spoke quite a bit about that. So this conversation goes all over the place.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Also, there was a weird coincidence in the very beginning. I don't know if this was captured on the podcast or not, but I was just basically saying, what are you doing there?

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it looks beautiful in the background where he was. And he said he just had a visit from Dr. Peter Lee, who works on AI at Microsoft and was just visiting Necker Island where Richard Branson is, which is right next door to where Naveen Jain is.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, oh, he was my professor in 1989. I took an AI course from him when I was in graduate school at Carnegie Mellon University in computer science.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's a small world, ultimately. Anyway, such a fascinating podcast. I hope it's not another 10 years before I have Naveen on again.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to I'm actually going to go through some of his suggestions and maybe I'll have something to report in a few months.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_00]: But here is Naveen Jain.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_00]: This isn't your average business podcast and he's not your average host.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_00]: This is the James Altucher Show.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So what are you doing, brother? Tell me more about how you know, what have you been doing?

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me a little bit more about podcasts. What else has been what have you been up to?

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Lately, and this is actually relevant to your book and your company, which I hope I can be a customer of.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I am trying to reverse the clock in one very specific area.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I am trying to when I was younger, I was a high ranking chess master.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And now that I'm older, I think my brain is weaker.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not you know, it's when you when you get older, you're not as good as the younger people.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm trying to be as good as the younger people.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that. I mean, I am now 65, brother, chronologically.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And my biological age is now down to 33.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_00]: That's incredible. And that's just from you analyzed.

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So so your company, you talk about this in the Youth Formula, your new book, and you you talk about your company, Viome.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_00]: How do you do it? I want to be a customer. I want to I want to get my microbiome analyzed.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I will tell you, let's get started. Then maybe I was just catching up with you.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_01]: So you're doing podcasts. How big is the podcast now?

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I know when you guys started, you were still pretty big at that time, even though you were starting out at that time.

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_00]: You're pretty big. Yeah, yeah. We have, you know, millions of of listeners and downloaders and and it's it's good.

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_00]: It's all it's all good. And, you know, but sometimes, to be honest, sometimes I get bored of the podcast because I feel like everyone has a business self-help book.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're all telling you about how to be a good leader. And I'm sick of that stuff.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm more. So why do you why do you bring that? Why do you bring them as a guest?

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you should bring the people that less with an agenda, but really have a unbelievably good thought leadership that's actually pushing the boundaries of something forward.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's that's what I that's what I'm more leaning towards now.

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And also like that and good like someone who is the cutting edge of whatever they're doing, like like you.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone has like a good story. Like that's another category. And those are the main.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And also they need to be inspiring, dude. I mean, I find most podcasts in the first 15 minutes.

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like I'm like throwing up. It's like, fuck, this thing is boring.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. Guy may be a bride, but if you can't inspire people, you can entertain them. Why bother?

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I agree. I mean, ultimately, everything is storytelling. Like you communicate, you communicate ideas on the bridge of a story between two people.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, just like like in your book, for instance, you're talking about the story of, you know, you had, you know, these incredibly old grandparents and so on.

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But then your dad was not as old. And and you're in it's like you were telling the story of your company and your own path towards youth by telling a little bit of his story and what was going on there.

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And and it was interesting. That's how you communicated your ideas.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Because, look, I read your book. And the first thing I thought was I need to get my microbiome, you know, analyzed so I could be younger.

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's more than about microbiome, brother. I mean, maybe let's start there.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, think about it. At the end of the day, our human body is not just what comes from our mom and dad.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And that one of the biggest thing that I was trying to convey in the book, Youth Formula, was that we tend to blame everything on someone else.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. So this is idea is that every time we get any serious disease, we just essentially say, well, it's a bad luck.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Not the it's not a matter of bad luck, but I really believe it's a matter of bad choices we make every day.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the fundamental thing was how do we get people to take accountability for their own action?

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. You're contrasting this with the myth that DNA is destiny and that you were locked in by by various aspects of our DNA.

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Because we all know that if we reduce stress, we'll live a healthier life.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, but but there's something very specific here where, you know, everybody's different.

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_00]: But but also DNA is not as important as people think.

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So that is the two or three myths that I wanted to bust here.

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_01]: One is BNA, my genes, I have bad genes.

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And when people say I have bad genes, what they're saying is, well, I am helpless.

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I am hopeless.

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_01]: These are the cards I am dealt with and there's nothing much I can do.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And what it turns out is less than 5% of the diseases are ever supposed to be fully penetrable.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_01]: That means you have a bad genes, you're going to get the disease like sickle cell amnia.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_01]: You're born with that.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to have that disease, right?

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_01]: 95% of the diseases that we all suffer from, diabetes, obesity, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, cancer,

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_01]: none of these diseases are given.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Less than our genes account for less than 5% or 10% of these things.

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_01]: 90% is our lifestyle.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_01]: That means we actually are in control of our own destiny, not our genes.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So for example, a lot of people say, well, I did a 23andMe test and it told me I am more likely to get Alzheimer because I have this APOE4 gene.

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I have a gene.

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So do I.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, interesting thing is, I ask people, are you born with that gene?

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Of course I am born with that gene.

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_01]: So it just sits in your body waiting one day.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And when you turn 70, you say, holy effing shit, I forgot to wipe out James' memory.

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I got to do that right now.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I got to wipe out his memory.

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't happen that way.

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_01]: The gene is there and its expression has to change.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_01]: That means something has to trigger it for it to do something different.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you can take the trigger away, then it doesn't really matter what genes you have.

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think of genes like having good thoughts or bad thoughts, like good genes or bad genes.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_01]: You and I can have all the bad thoughts in the world as long as we don't express our bad thoughts.

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_01]: We are totally fine.

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So don't express...

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_00]: What about twins?

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_00]: What about identical twins?

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Is it shown that identical twins tend to get Alzheimer's at the same time?

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what the research is.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's very interesting.

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_01]: There's so much research that was done on identical twins.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_01]: You feed them exactly the same food and they have a completely different response to the same food.

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, in one person, the spinach actually can spike someone's blood sugar.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Other person, it doesn't.

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So each food reacts completely differently and it does it based on our own ecosystem.

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So the second part is we are not a product of our genes that we get from mom and dad.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_01]: It turns out, James, that 99% of all the genes in our body actually come from these things called microbiome.

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And there are 100 trillion of them that live in our gut, in our mouth, all over us.

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_01]: They produce anywhere between 2 million to 20 million genes.

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And we get only 20,000 genes that we get from our mom and dad.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So we are 99% really these microbial or alien.

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And we are less than 1% human.

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_00]: First off, that's completely gross.

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_00]: But are you saying those genes are just as important for us as the 23,000 genes that are part of our DNA?

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And answer is actually more important.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Because remember, it is not about them and us.

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_01]: We actually symbiotically grew together as one organism.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So think of us human being as one super organism that has outsourced many of our functions to these organisms.

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_01]: So remember, these organisms were on planet Earth three and a half billion years ago.

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So think about amoeba, bacteria, all these guys.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_01]: They are the ones who created the atmosphere.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_01]: So when the Earth, in the early days of Earth, we were nothing but full of carbon dioxide.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Then these organisms came that can start to absorb carbon dioxide and start throwing oxygen.

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And when there was enough oxygen, the more organisms came about.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So humans are only a couple of hundred thousand years old species.

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_01]: So we are very, very young.

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And these organisms have been around for a long time.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So you could argue in a tongue-in-cheek that maybe these organisms created us so we can carry them around.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So think about from their perspective.

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So this is a creation story, a funny creation story to explain the role of microbes in our lives.

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Imagine now this.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to tell a story like a cartoon story.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Imagine a million years ago, a bunch of these microbes got together and says,

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_01]: we have a real problem.

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_01]: What's the problem, son?

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_01]: We're sick and tired of living in these savannas of Africa.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_01]: We need to conquer the world.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_01]: We want to take over the world.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And they all looked at each other.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_01]: What do you have in mind?

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And the young microbes says, you know what?

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_01]: What if we can create something bipedal?

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And what if the trillions of us could live inside that?

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And these guys are going to go everywhere in the world, conquer the world.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to poop everywhere.

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to spread us everywhere.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And they're going to take over the world.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And they created this thing and they ended up calling it humans.

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And everybody was so excited.

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Humans, humans, humans.

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And as the humans started to evolve, all these bacteria got together and said,

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_01]: oh my God, master, master, what have we done?

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, what's the problem?

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Just like today, we are afraid of AI.

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And we are thinking, oh my God, one day AI is going to take over humans and going to wipe us out.

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_01]: All these microbes are thinking, oh my God,

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_01]: what if these humans someday become smarter than us?

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Aren't they going to just kill us all?

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And so they assembled together and say, master, master, we have a real problem.

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_01]: What's the problem, son?

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, aren't you worried?

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_01]: These humans are starting to develop brain.

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And what if they someday become smarter than us and they start to kill us all?

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Aren't we all going to get wiped out?

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_01]: They said, nah, not to worry, son.

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Master, what have you done?

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let me tell you the secret there.

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_01]: We live a 40 trillion of lives inside their gut.

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_01]: We put a direct connection to their brain and they call that Vegas nerve.

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Can you believe that?

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Thinking that by naming it after Las Vegas, what happens in the gut is going to stay in the gut.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_01]: The little that they know what happens in the gut goes everywhere.

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_01]: We control everything in their brain.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_01]: When we are full, we tell them I'm full.

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_01]: When we are hungry, we tell them we are hungry.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_01]: When we want certain type of food, we make them addicted to that food.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_01]: So whatever we want, we make them do it.

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_01]: We even control how they think and what they think.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, I'm going to come back to science about what the science says now, right?

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_01]: They say, master, that is good.

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_01]: But what if they actually don't take care of us?

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we have another thing we did.

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_01]: What did you do, master?

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Inside their cell, we put one of our brother and they call that mitochondria.

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_01]: It is one of our bacterial brother.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_01]: We talk to them all the time.

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_01]: If they don't take good care of us, we just call our brother and say, hey, brother, shut the energy down.

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_01]: They're done.

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And we control every energy of their cell in their body.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_01]: We control it.

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's how we're going to control humans.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So don't you worry.

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Just enjoy and enjoy the ride and let them take care of you.

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is how the humans were created, right?

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So this is obviously a tongue-in-cheek story.

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_01]: But now think about what science says.

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Just about two months ago, there was a paper that they published.

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_01]: They can actually show that changing their gut microbiome, our empathy, how we make decisions,

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_01]: do we make the decisions that are actually sound or do we make decisions that are emotional,

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_01]: can be controlled by our microbiome?

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Think about that for a second.

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_01]: You change the microbiome, people's addiction change.

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And they have now proven that not only microbiome is involved in every disease from diabetes to

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_01]: depression, Alzheimer's to Parkinson's or cancer or even cancer therapy.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_01]: So they did their study where it took people who had cancer and they give them immunotherapy.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_01]: It worked for about 30, 40% of the people.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And the other 60% where it did not work, they simply gave them a new fecal transplant and

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_01]: suddenly the drug started working.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So a fecal transplant.

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So they took basically the feces, the shit from a healthy person, put it inside your gut.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And then what does that do?

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_01]: The same immunotherapy started working that did not work before.

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And what is immunotherapy?

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So immunotherapy is basically a drug that you give when somebody had a cancer.

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, it is same thing what they've proven, the people who had addiction to alcohol

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and they simply changed their microbiome by giving them a different feces.

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And suddenly their addiction to alcohol went away.

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And is that because you're putting in the microbiome and then it spreads, the new microbiome spreads?

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So it becomes...

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So basically the way it works is they give you a massive amount of antibiotics to kill

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_01]: all your current microbiome, right?

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And then they actually populate the new microbiome from a healthy person.

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And there are two ways of doing it, either front door or a back door.

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_01]: In a front door, they give you capsules that are poop capsules, or in the back door,

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_01]: they give you the enema.

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Man, I kind of want this now.

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, God, don't say that.

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to start fresh, or so to speak.

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, make sure you get a good feces then.

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the key.

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_00]: But okay, I don't say that because you know why I shouldn't say that.

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Why shouldn't I say that?

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm just thinking just people think it's pretty gross, right?

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Otherwise, you know, the interesting thing is a lot of people believe that even autism,

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_01]: there was a study done in Texas where they actually took the kids who had autism

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and simply did the microbiome fecal transplant.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And even two years later, they had a 50% improvement in their autism.

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And have they tried this with like diabetes or Alzheimer's?

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So they have done it for almost every disease now,

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and they have shown a significant improvement.

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_01]: The risk also is that, you know, is that whatever things you have in the person who took the,

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, you took the feces from, you essentially can inherit the same thing.

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, only thing that's approved right now officially for fecal transplant,

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_01]: other than research, is for someone who has C. diff infection.

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And there are some really interesting cases that a one person who had a C. diff infection,

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and they could get a fecal transplant.

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And after the fecal transplant, they got fat.

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And it turns out the poop that it came from was the person who was fat.

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_01]: In other cases, somebody got depressed because the poop that came from a person who was depression,

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_01]: right?

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_01]: That's crazy.

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And one very interesting case was the person who had, I believe, Alzheimer's,

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and they got a fecal transplant done, and it came from a healthy person,

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and the Alzheimer's went away.

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Take a quick break.

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_00]: If you like this episode, I'd really, really appreciate it.

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_00]: It would mean so much to me.

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Please share it with your friends and subscribe to the podcast.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Email me at alcatra at gmail.com and tell me why you subscribed.

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So let me ask you, so in terms of, like, consciousness and personality,

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and, you know, we asked philosophically the question, who are we?

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Is our personality not really our real being?

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Because it could just be transplanted through someone else's shit, basically.

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Basically, you know, if you say, who are we?

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_01]: The first question you have to ask yourself, James, is who is asking?

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Who is the person who is asking?

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_01]: So what is that I says?

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_01]: What are we?

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_01]: My point is, no one knows what that I is.

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Is I your brain?

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So for example, if I get my hand, new hand, people say, oh, I'm still James, right?

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Now I get a new hip.

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm still James.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I get a new knee.

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm still James.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I get, you know, all my body parts replaced, my heart replaced, my kidney replaced, my lung replaced.

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_01]: It's still me.

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_01]: At what point of time do I start not becoming me?

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_01]: You say it's my body.

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, guess what?

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Your body is constantly changing.

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Every so often, all of our cells are dying and the new cells are coming in.

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_01]: When we were a baby, we had a different body than we are now.

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So what is it that we call us?

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Is really our memories and our experiences what makes us who we are.

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_01]: If people say, well, our soul, there is something called soul.

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody knows what that soul is, right?

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_01]: But we have a soul that's supposed to be who we are.

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And interestingly, James, I don't know how much you follow the Eastern philosophy and the Eastern religion.

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, in Eastern religion, there is Brahma.

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you look at how Brahma is shown, it comes from navel.

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_01]: That life starts in the navel.

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_01]: What is that?

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_01]: It starts in the gut.

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_01]: So what everyone says is that literally your life is in your gut.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You remember, listen to your gut.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Do the gut check.

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_01]: All these things we talk about, you know, what's happening?

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, how are you feeling?

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Do a gut feeling.

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_01]: What is all that comes from?

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_01]: What is that gut?

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_01]: What they're saying is ask your microbes everything and thou shall get the answer.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And so then it does beg the question then if who we are, even from a ancient religious perspective, is this bacteria and biome that is in our body.

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_00]: What is there even something deeper than that that strips that away to get to a soul?

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So it is the philosophically, it is hard to imagine what soul is or even who we are.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So let's now, and I don't want to go through this rat hole, but, you know, knowing you, I knew that you couldn't probably avoid these things once I got there.

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So think about, we or anything that we see in the world is made of atoms.

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, everything in our body is made of atoms, right?

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_01]: What is atoms made of?

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Atoms are made of neutrons and protons and electrons, right?

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_01]: What are they made of?

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Quarks.

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_01]: What are they made of?

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Bosons.

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_01]: What are they made of?

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Energy.

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So you basically are nothing but a floating energy.

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Our human mind creates this impression that my hand is solid.

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_01]: This table is solid.

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_01]: But the fact is we know there is nothing solid.

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_01]: It's all energy waves.

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Our mind, through haptic feedback, says, oh, that's solid.

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_01]: My mind creates the images that we see.

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_01]: At the end of the day, everything is nothing but electromagnetic waves.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_01]: They hit our retina and our retina makes up everything in our mind.

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_01]: So everything we see is a hallucination.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So if I say this blue sky, first of all, there is no such thing as blue color because color doesn't exist.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Our mind makes up that color.

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_01]: The sky doesn't exist because it's nothing but a scattered light.

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_01]: But we see it as physical barrier.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Everything we see as a tree or a mountain is nothing but a floating energy.

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you believe they are in quantum state, that means they are in every possible state of quantum.

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And until we observe it, the waves doesn't collapse.

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And when we observe it, the waves collapse.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_01]: But that means there is nothing that really exists until we see it and we create that in our own mind.

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_01]: So you didn't want to go into that.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I did.

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_00]: But we all sort of share this hallucination, right?

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not unique to us.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Unless everybody else is a hallucination, there's only I.

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, interesting thing is it is no different than any other video game that's a multiplayer game.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_01]: One person creates something virtual and then every other person can see it because that persists.

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And it only persists across the human species.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Dogs don't see the same thing as we do.

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_01]: The bats don't see the same thing that we do.

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, so much so, if you and I, if I were to tell, you know, James, do you hear the Taylor Swift playing?

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're going to say, what the hell are you talking about?

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_01]: There is no Taylor Swift playing.

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And I put a radio right there and suddenly you can hear Taylor Swift.

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_01]: That means the radio waves are already here.

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_01]: We just can't hear because our audio cortex can only hear very small wavelength of sound.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Our eyes can only see a very small wavelength of light.

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_01]: But everything is here.

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Just because we don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_01]: So when we say, hey, I can't hear the Taylor Swift, doesn't mean the Taylor Swift song is not here.

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Because as soon as you put a radio and it tunes to the right frequency, you can hear it, right?

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And all that is doing changing the frequency from a short wave or XM wave into the wave that we can understand.

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_01]: That's all that's happening.

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And so it is interesting to know that you can basically change every aspect of your life.

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Like even what you think is core to you, other than maybe your memories, you know, you could change your core being.

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Even memories, brother.

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Memories are constantly being related.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Every time you remember something, you actually modify and rewrite it, right?

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So in fact, every experience rewrites your memory.

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And our memories are constantly changing even though of the same event.

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Someone reminds you of something at that time and your memory changes.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And you say, oh, James, you may not remember.

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I say, James, do you remember when we were together, we did this?

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_01]: You may not remember.

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Now you created a new memory.

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of the time that memory is filtered based on whether you're optimistic or depressed or angry or afraid.

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're saying from changing the microbiome, like for instance, through this fecal transplant, I could completely change that filter the way I experience the world.

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So remember, microbiome doesn't control the wavelength of a light that we see.

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Microbiome don't control the wavelength of sound that we hear, right?

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not that our visual cortex or our audio cortex or somatosensory is actually being changed by microbiome.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_01]: It is the perception, a lot of the neocortex, a lot of the decision-making things that can actually be controlled through biochemically.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So remember, all that is doing is changing the biochemicals.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you know that 90% of all the serotonin in the body is produced in your gut, not in your brain?

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Serotonin is that hormone that makes you feel good.

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_01]: It's actually produced in the gut, 90%, not in the brain.

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, GABA transmitter, neurotransmitter is produced in your gut.

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of these neurotransmitters are actually traveling through vagus nerves back and forth.

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is really how gut controls your brain.

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, you know that when people take Ozempic, the interesting thing is Ozempic works through your gut.

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And suddenly people are not seeing the news or not.

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_01]: The people's addiction are going away.

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_01]: People are not eating sugar anymore.

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_01]: People are not addicted to alcohol.

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_01]: All these sales are coming down because more and more people are getting onto this GLP-1 drug that works through the gut.

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And the addiction is going away.

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's interesting how little control, again, we have over – or a little control we think we have over our health, over our disposition, over our feelings.

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And you discuss this in the book, but like how can I – what is the appropriate thing to do?

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So obviously everyone can't get a fecal transplant.

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So what can I do to optimize my gut?

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_01]: James, think about it.

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, you can't change something unless you measure it.

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_01]: So first thing you need to do is to understand what is going on.

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_01]: One of the second myths that we have – you know, I wanted to bust was people have this idea of there is healthy food and there is unhealthy food.

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So there is a lot of food that are unhealthy.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of food that people consider healthy may be healthy for someone and not for them.

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And even the food that was healthy for them six months ago may not be healthy for them now.

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, for example, today if I were to ask you and say, hey, James, do you eat healthy?

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_01]: You say, I am most of the time.

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, how do you know it's healthy for you?

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, I eat avocado.

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_01]: How do you know avocado is healthy for you?

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, everyone tells me it's healthy.

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting thing is avocado can be healthy for some people.

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you have high uric acid in your gut, that's the last thing you want to do is to eat avocado because it's going to cause you gout.

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to have swollen joints.

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_01]: If you say spinach, of course it has to be healthy.

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_01]: After all, Popeye told everyone that spinach is healthy.

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_01]: But Popeye was not a scientist.

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_01]: The spinach is actually 50% of the people are harmed by spinach because spinach is the highest in oxalates.

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And these oxalates, if they're not being metabolized properly, will end up into a kidney stone.

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Same type of thing.

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Think about people think broccoli.

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I got to suck up and eat my broccoli.

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, guess what?

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Broccoli can be really bad for you because it has a lot of sulfate that actually turns into sulfide.

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And your microbes turn into sulfide and sulfide causes a lot of inflammation.

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of people say, well, red meat is really bad for you.

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's not.

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Red meat is extremely high nutritious.

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_01]: As long as the choline in the red meat, your microbes are not converting them into TMA, which is trimethylamine, which gets absorbed in the blood.

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And your liver uses an enzyme called FMO3 to convert TMA into TMAO, which is what causes the plaque in your arteries.

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you don't have a lot of TMA and you don't have an oral microbiome that is enhancing the expression of FMO3, you should eat all the red meat you can.

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And you and I probably know some people who ate red meat and live to be 100.

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And those are those people.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's interesting because, look, I've done at least, I don't know, 50 to 100 podcasts with people who are, quote unquote, expert nutritionists.

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And every time I get out of one of those podcasts, I completely switch my diet to whatever they said because now I...

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the problem.

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_00]: That probably is.

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And that is the problem.

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_00]: But everybody says something different.

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I've even had two people on this podcast say that cigarette smoking is good for you.

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, everybody says everything.

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_01]: So, well, the problem is people do it for the shock value.

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And people say, oh my God, don't eat lactants.

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to kill you.

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_01]: That is a complete effing baloney.

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, the same person who tells you lactants are bad, they'll tell you, take my supplement.

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Everything is good.

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Just buy the shit from me.

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Everything you're eating is good.

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_01]: There are people who say grains.

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my God, grains are so bad.

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to destroy you.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, except take my supplement and then everything is fine.

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_01]: What we believe is there's nothing as...

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not you.

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_01]: You need to measure it and find out what is going on in your body.

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So when I say caffeine is good or caffeine is bad, answer is it depends.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Is broccoli good or bad?

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_01]: It depends on what's happening in your body.

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So what we do, James, is we don't tell you what you should or should not eat.

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_01]: We simply say, let's see what's going on in your body.

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So we analyze.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_01]: You give us a spit of your saliva.

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_01]: You give us a four drops of your finger prick blood.

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So you buy, you go to wyom.com.

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_01]: So you start with that.

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_01]: You go to wyom.com, order something called full body intelligence.

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And it comes with three tests.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_01]: You give us a spit of your saliva.

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_01]: You give us a four drops of your finger prick blood.

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And you give us a touch of your stool.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, what we do is we analyze all those things in your body.

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And unlike anything else, what we focus on is your RNA.

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So remember, DNA doesn't matter.

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_01]: DNA makes RNA.

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So your gene expression is what really matters.

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Your genes are not changing, but what they are expressing is always changing.

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So what we are measuring is your gene expression, right?

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Then we measure your mitochondrial gene expression.

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Then we measure all of your immune system gene expression.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_01]: You measure all of your gut gene expression.

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_01]: We measure everything in your mouth, all of your oral microbiome gene expression.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And then we use AI to say, okay, based on this gene expression, what is going on inside your body?

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So we tell you your biological age, your cognitive health, your heart health, your gut health, your oral health.

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And then we can go down as deep as you want.

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_01]: This is your LPS production.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_01]: This is your production of sulfide.

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_01]: This is your production of oral sulfide.

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_01]: This is your production of protein fermentation.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And once we do all of that, now I can say, James, for you right now, not forever, right now, you should avoid eating avocado.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't eat shrimp and here is why.

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Or don't eat a chicken and here is why.

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You can eat oats, but don't drink oat milk and here is why.

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_01]: So we always tell you, eat this food and here is why.

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't eat this food and here is why.

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And then we say, hey, everything you need in your body, in addition to your foods, you should take every day 22 milligram of elderberry.

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Make sure you take 79 milligram of amylase or protease to digest your protein that you're eating.

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Take 73 milligram of lipopin.

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And we go through every vitamin, minerals, herbs, digestive enzyme, amino acid, food extract.

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And we tell you what you need in what quantity.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you want, we custom make the powder and put them in a capsule and ship it to you every month.

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_01]: There is no pre-made.

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_01]: No two people ever get the same formula, ever.

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So we custom make that just for you.

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to ask about the AI.

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_00]: How did you train the AI?

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Did you have a bunch of microbiomes and results from treatment and trained on that?

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_01]: So we have now analyzed over 1 million samples.

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_01]: We have now over 100 quadrillion biological data point.

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_01]: So we have the largest database on humanity ever assembled by a human.

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I can't tell you what Martians may or may not have done on humans,

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_01]: but I can tell you no other humans have done this, right?

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_01]: We take all the data, then use AI to actually now tell you what we have done.

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, we have published the peer-reviewed paper that shows in six months,

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_01]: people's diabetes HbA1c comes down by 30%.

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Their IBS, 15% of our population suffers from IBS, which is stomach ache, constipation, diarrhea, bloating.

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_01]: It goes down by 49% in six months.

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Your depression measured by PHQ-9 clinical score goes down by 47%.

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Anxiety measured by GAD-7 clinical score goes down by 42%.

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And these are all published in American Journal of Lifestyle Medicine.

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_01]: You can go check it out.

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_01]: So we literally have all this data published and saying this is the results you get.

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And so what have you noticed about yourself?

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, obviously, you've been doing this.

[00:36:29] Interesting.

[00:36:30] [SPEAKER_01]: So a couple of things.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_01]: So first of all, my biological age, I'm 65 chronologically.

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_01]: All that means is since I was born, the earth has gone around the sun 65 times, right?

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_01]: But biologically, my age is now 33.

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_01]: That means I have energy and my cells that are actually 33.

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I thought honestly that my guys are being really nice to me to make me look good.

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So I actually secretly went and did a third party biological age test just to make sure

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_01]: that I was not being fooled by my own people.

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I was drinking my own Kool-Aid.

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And I can show you that actually my biological age and I'm going to send you the damn report

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and you can see it for yourself.

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_01]: My biological age is now 33, right?

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I have lost 25 pounds.

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_01]: When I run up the stairs at 65, I don't do one step at a time.

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I run up the two stairs at a time, right?

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I have more energy and God knows I don't need more energy.

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter.

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I get up at 4 a.m. every day and I jump out of the bed with joy.

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And your sleep is good?

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, no problem sleeping?

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_01]: So I actually measure my sleep with my aura ring.

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I measure my sleep with my eight sleep.

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I measure my sleep with the Apple Watch.

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I, all of that stuff.

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, interestingly, this is another myth that everyone needs eight hours of sleep.

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_01]: What is the thing is you actually need about one and a half to two hours of REM sleep.

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And you need about hour and 15 minutes to one and a half hour deep sleep.

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_01]: If you can get that in five hours, great.

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_01]: If you need six, take six.

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_01]: If you need seven, take seven.

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_01]: If you need eight, take eight.

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_01]: It's the quality of sleep that matters, not the quantity of sleep.

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_00]: You think your memory, you think your mental acuity has gotten sharper as well?

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, obviously, you know, as I, people tell you that when you're 65, you're going to forget

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_01]: things, right?

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Interestingly, I hate to say, but I think I have memory of a damn elephant.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I never forget things.

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_01]: It is just really good that I'm able to remember things, every detail about every science paper.

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I can recall and tell you exactly what's going on, right?

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Interestingly, to live healthier, there are five things that matter.

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_01]: The number, you know, just like the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you have to get the first

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_01]: thing first before you go to the second thing.

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_01]: At the lowest level is the nutrition.

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_01]: If you don't get the right nutrition, nothing matters.

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So you have a great Ferrari, and if you're not going to put the right fuel in it, it's

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_01]: going to drive shitty, right?

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're going to have a great Ferrari, you need to put the right fuel in that.

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_01]: That's your nutrition.

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So what you need to do is, again, make sure you know exactly the foods that you're eating

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and why they are good for you or why they are not good for you.

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Making sure you get the right supplements.

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_01]: By the way, make the custom personalized gut biotics just for you.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_01]: We make the oral lozenges that are to adjust your oral microbiome for you.

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_01]: We even have a personalized toothpaste that removes the plaque on contact, adjust your

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_01]: oral microbiome with all the enzymes, and there's a different toothpaste for morning.

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not a toothpaste tube.

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_01]: It comes in a single use, precisely measured dose just for you.

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_01]: On morning, a separate toothpaste, and the evening, a separate dosage, right?

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_01]: It's all made just for you.

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So second thing, once you get the nutrition right, that means you adjust your food, you

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_01]: get your supplements, you get your gut biotics, you get your oral biotics, you get your toothpaste.

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Once you've done that, the next thing is stress reduction.

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And the reason is when your body is under stress, it goes into fight or flight response.

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Remember why we went into fight or flight response?

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_01]: When we were evolving, we were being chased by a tiger.

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_01]: So what does your body say?

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_01]: When you're being chased by a tiger, first thing it does, it shuts down what it considered

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_01]: non-essential things.

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_01]: What's non-essential?

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Forget about digesting your food because you're going to be at lunch for someone else right

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_01]: now.

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So don't worry about digesting your food.

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So it shuts down your digestive system.

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_01]: It shuts down your immune system because you say, don't worry about that shit right

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_01]: now.

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to be at lunch for someone else, right?

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Suddenly the people who are, you know, you notice that people who are stressed, they get

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_01]: sick very often.

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_01]: They can digest their food.

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_01]: When they eat the food, they get fat because it's not being digested, right?

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So we as humans came up with the religion thing.

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, before we eat food, we're going to do the gratitude.

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to do the prayer.

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Why do we do that?

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So we can move from sympathetic mode to parasympathetic mode.

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Move away from fight or flight into the gratitude.

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was very interesting.

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_00]: You wrote that in the book and I thought that was very interesting that that's basically

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_00]: the beginning of this religious ceremony is just creating this pause, like saying thanks

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_00]: forces you to pause before you start stuffing your mouth.

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_00]: What does it mean parasympathetic mode?

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's basically, sympathetic mode is when you are in a fight or flight response, right?

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Parasympathetic mode is when you are active in symbiotic and you no longer have stress.

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_01]: You're back to normal.

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So very interesting.

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And so now once you've done that, the next thing comes down.

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, this is interesting thing is that generally the stress is very good for

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_01]: you because without stress, you and I won't be here today because our ancestor would have

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_01]: been eaten by a tiger.

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So we won't be around today.

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_01]: So the point is, stress is what saved us.

[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, what happens is stress normally was very short time.

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Either you got eaten by a tiger and your stress went away or you survived and your stress went

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_01]: away.

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_01]: But today we live in this modern society where we have stress constantly.

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_01]: You go to work and your boss stresses you out.

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_01]: You go home, your spouse stresses you out.

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And all over the time, you're constantly stressed.

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_01]: You walk, you're watching a news, you know, constantly negative news, right?

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_01]: That's called CNN, constant negative news.

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_01]: It's because they realize your body has this in the brain, something called amygdala.

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_01]: It's constantly looking out for negative news because it knows if you miss the negative

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_01]: news, you're done.

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_01]: If you miss the positive news, who cares?

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_01]: So your amygdala is constantly looking for negative news.

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the reason all the newscasters realize if it bleeds, it leads.

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Get the damn negative out.

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_01]: There is a rape here.

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_01]: There is a murder here.

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Every negative news because you know the brain is going to pay attention.

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So they get the advertiser there, right?

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's really the whole theme is everywhere there is stress.

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And your job now is to reduce the stress.

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So what do you do?

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Stop watching the news.

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_01]: If your boss is stressing you out, quit your goddamn job and do something else.

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_01]: If your spouse is stressing you out, you know what to do with that, right?

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So point is, you got to get rid of all this stress in your environment, right?

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_01]: The third is exercise.

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Very interestingly, most people think you need to be a gym rat.

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_01]: You got to spend two, three, four hours in the gym.

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_01]: The answer is no.

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Your body just needs to move.

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_01]: As long as you're moving 45 minutes, 30 to 45 minutes every single day.

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_01]: If you can get some uphill, you get a little bit of heart up.

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Perfect.

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_01]: As you start to age, you need to do a little bit more muscle training.

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_01]: You don't need to lift weights.

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Normally what I would do is even if I'm traveling, you do a bunch of push-ups, you do a bunch

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_01]: of pounds and trying to be Arnold Schwarzenegger.

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_01]: That's not what your body needs to live on.

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_01]: The fourth is sleep.

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_01]: We talked about it.

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Sleep is important.

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_01]: But again, as I mentioned, it is the quality that you need to focus on, not the quantity.

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_01]: So make sure you're getting, you measure things.

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So make sure you have a thing to measure.

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I personally love age sleep.

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And the reason is, I like it warm when I go into bed.

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And as I go into the REM sleep, it changes.

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_01]: The temperature goes down.

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_01]: When I go into deep sleep, it changes it further.

[00:44:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And when I start to wake up, it starts to warm up.

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_01]: So I like it.

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And it actually gives me a really good night's sleep.

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And even though I get five hours of sleep, last night I got about five hours sleep.

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And I actually had about hour and 45 minute REM sleep.

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And I had hour and 10 minutes of deep sleep.

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_00]: What if you were traveling and you needed to get good sleep, but your plane landed at 1 a.m.?

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_00]: You got a meeting at 7 a.m.?

[00:44:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Is there anything to kind of like...

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of things.

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So I have four or five things that I have learned for myself.

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Number one, drinking.

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Even if you have a half a glass of wine, at least for me, my deep sleep is out the window.

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I just don't get a good sleep.

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So I just completely stop drinking, period.

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So I just don't drink any alcohol, period.

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Even if I do, it is probably half a glass of wine every three, four months.

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And I know that night I'm sacrificing my sleep.

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And I say, fine, that's the cost I pay for tonight.

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to probably sleep better in the afternoon.

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_01]: So it generally would be a Friday night.

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I get a Saturday afternoon.

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I get a siesta to make up for that shit.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Other thing is eating.

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't eat at least three hours before I sleep.

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_01]: So I will normally go to bed by 9.

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And that means I stop eating by 6 p.m.

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So I eat early and I get enough gap.

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And the reason is if you want to give three hours to digest your food that you ate,

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_01]: if not, while you're sleeping, the food is sitting in your stomach

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and you will never be able to get a good sleep.

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's, so make sure you, and by the way, it's really interesting, James.

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_01]: In my religion, Jainism, my mom and dad would tell me they don't eat after dark.

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, I always wonder, mom and dad, now we have light.

[00:46:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Why do you worry about?

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And now I realized it was very simple religion that said,

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_01]: hey, if you don't eat after dark, that means you're eating while the sun is there

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and you got three, four hours before you sleep.

[00:46:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was basically a scientific region and they turned into a religion.

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So interesting how so many of the practices from religion

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_00]: really have a scientific basis to it,

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_00]: but they just didn't really know how to express it that way.

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So they came up with these ideas, this is what you do.

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, a lot of people say, oh, gee, I really believe in fasting.

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Guess what?

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_01]: In at least Hindu religion, there are probably every month,

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_01]: there's something where you fast, right?

[00:46:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this is the, today is the, you know, blah religion thing, you fast.

[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And you do.

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's interesting.

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, even, I mean, every religion has this, you know, lent,

[00:47:08] [SPEAKER_01]: you give up these things.

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So you fast, right?

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, Muslim religion has 30 days of not eating during the day.

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_00]: What about intermittent fasting in general?

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Because it seems like most of the dangerous things that we can do involve food.

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, if you eat too late, you can't sleep.

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, if you eat the wrong foods, you're going to get Alzheimer's.

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's, it seems like if you avoid eating,

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_00]: you're going to do pretty good.

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And you mentioned an intriguing thing in your book.

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_00]: What if we can engineer our genes so that we don't need as much food?

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, on intermittent fasting, there was a research that came out.

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_01]: It was done on very large, large number of people that shows people who do intermittent fasting actually die faster.

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, really?

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I bet I bet I stopped intermittent fasting.

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, in fact, if you were to just Google intermittent fasting and death,

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and you can see actually talks about that how people who are intermittent fasting,

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_01]: they actually die faster.

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of people get very upset, you know,

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_01]: well, they didn't control for this, they didn't control for that.

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's a religion.

[00:48:08] [SPEAKER_01]: You can't argue against the religion.

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:48:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And so one thing we learned, James,

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_01]: was very interesting is that people who are on these fat diet, like keto diet,

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_01]: we found that people who are on keto diet,

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_01]: they tend to be aging faster than their chronological age.

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_01]: So we put the paper that we published,

[00:48:27] [SPEAKER_01]: we showed that people who are on a keto diet are five to seven years older than their chronological age

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_01]: because their body is completely being effed up by not eating carbs.

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Same thing on a paleo diet.

[00:48:39] [SPEAKER_01]: People say, just eat how our ancestors ate.

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And I kept reminding people, you know, it sounds so good, eat like your ancestors.

[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And people forget our ancestors used to live to 22 years old.

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to eat like your ancestors, sure, die like your ancestors.

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't just eat like your ancestors.

[00:48:54] [SPEAKER_01]: They died at 22.

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what you want.

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you look at every society and every like blue zone group, for instance,

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_00]: they all have a carb.

[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Like Japan, there's rice, there's carbs everywhere.

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Mediterranean food.

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Remember, Mediterranean food is all nothing but carbs, you know?

[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Past that pizza, right?

[00:49:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't understand these people come up with this paleo diet and keto diet

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and say, just give up everything.

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And somehow, somehow think that's good for you to get out of the whole macronutrient from your diet.

[00:49:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, but that's interesting though about the keto diet making you age more quickly.

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, it is true.

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And the reason is because you are actually think about every of your cell.

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Your cell requires carbs that if you look at all the cell walls, they're all glycans.

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_01]: They're all carbs.

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if you're not eating carbs, you can't be feeding your cells.

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Period.

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And then, oh, go ahead.

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead.

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm also fascinated how it was so important for, in your book, it's like this fourth or fifth

[00:50:04] [SPEAKER_00]: part of your hierarchy of longevity.

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_00]: It was just finding a sense of purpose and how you link that to health.

[00:50:12] Yes.

[00:50:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And it is really true.

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_01]: If you think about the purpose and community is so important.

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, if you look at all the blue zones, there is nothing in common except that they all have great community

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_01]: and they all actually live together healthier.

[00:50:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:50:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's really the thing about finding a purpose.

[00:50:31] [SPEAKER_01]: What we found is people who live a life of purpose, they tend to live 10 to 15 years longer than the people who have no purpose.

[00:50:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's just amazing to see.

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, let me ask you this because I've noticed this among entrepreneurs.

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of times, let's say someone's an entrepreneur.

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_00]: They work really hard.

[00:50:49] [SPEAKER_00]: They're working 100 hours a week.

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_00]: They sell their business and they're happy they sold their business.

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_00]: But a week later, they get a heart attack.

[00:50:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I've seen this more than once.

[00:51:00] [SPEAKER_00]: This seems to happen.

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_00]: You would think when they were really working 100 hours a week, they would get the heart attack.

[00:51:06] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's actually when they're totally relaxed and happy right after they sell the business, they get the heart attack.

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, you know, the same thing happens when people retire.

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Think about how many times it happens when they retire, their cognitive health starts to decline.

[00:51:23] [SPEAKER_01]: They're everything.

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So the thing, James, as an entrepreneur, I learned is that the minute the day you stop learning is the day you start dying.

[00:51:32] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're not feeding your brain, your actual brain starts to decline.

[00:51:37] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's constantly learning.

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's one thing I've done is, you know, as you know, this is my seventh venture.

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I never start two companies in the same industry is because once you become good at something, you become incrementalist.

[00:51:50] [SPEAKER_01]: In my book, you become useless, right?

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Because it is the people who are non-expert are the ones who are able to challenge the foundation of everything that experts have taken it for granted.

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the key.

[00:52:03] [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to disrupt something, you got to be able to challenge everything.

[00:52:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's, you know, again, one of the things that I always think about is how do you raise children and give them that intellectual curiosity, right?

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the key.

[00:52:17] [SPEAKER_01]: My mission has always been is you got to entrepreneurs have to have a couple of things that I, you know, in my humble, in my humble opinion is that the entrepreneurs have to feel alive.

[00:52:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And the only way you know you are alive is you have a heartbeat.

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_01]: What does the heartbeat feel like?

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_01]: It goes up and down and up and down.

[00:52:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And when it's smooth, you're dead.

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you ever find as an entrepreneur, you're living a smooth life, that means you have chosen to live a life of a dead person.

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_01]: When you have these ups and downs tells you you're still alive because when you are down, all you have to do is hunker down and know the next beat is going to be up.

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And when you are on top of that beat, never become too arrogant because always remember the winter is coming and winter always comes.

[00:53:00] [SPEAKER_00]: It's so true.

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I've seen in the times of my life, whenever, like, let's say I sell a company and I think, man, I won.

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I did it.

[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I finished my job as a human being, which is I got successful.

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the signal that I'm about to go completely broke right there.

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_01]: That's exactly the point.

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_01]: When you get the smooth line, you start to feel smooth.

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_01]: You're basically now chosen to live a life of a dead person.

[00:53:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's interesting.

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_00]: It seems like what you've done, like I've observed the Naveen method, right?

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_00]: You take an idea in each one of your businesses.

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_00]: You kind of ask, well, what's the cutting edge?

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you say, well, what's further?

[00:53:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Like we're not just going to go to the moon.

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to go to the moon and mine all the rare earth elements on the moon and use that to transport to other places.

[00:53:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're not just going to build a search engine, you know, all the way back at the beginning.

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to just build a search engine.

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to build, you know, every search engine plus social media plus commerce plus everything.

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So and now here with this, we're not just going to like clean your gut out.

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to make you live to 300.

[00:54:16] Yeah.

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is honestly is about taking on and all.

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So this is a framework, James.

[00:54:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I think we never talked about last time.

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_01]: There is a framework that I use every time I start a new company or a new project.

[00:54:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And I want everyone listening to it to actually think about it for a second.

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Ask yourself three questions.

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Why this?

[00:54:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Why now?

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Why me?

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And why this is a very simple thing.

[00:54:41] [SPEAKER_01]: You ask yourself, God forbid, I'm actually successful in solving the problem that I set out to solve.

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Would it help a billion people live a better life?

[00:54:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And you don't ask it because somehow you're a philanthropic person and you want to do a lot of good in the world.

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_01]: It is a very simple capitalist thing to do.

[00:54:58] [SPEAKER_01]: If you can build any product, any service that helps a billion people live a better life, you can create a hundred billion dollar company.

[00:55:05] [SPEAKER_01]: But you don't wake up in the morning and say, what should I do to create a hundred billion dollar company?

[00:55:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Making money is a byproduct of doing things that improve people's lives.

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_01]: That's simple, right?

[00:55:16] [SPEAKER_01]: That means making money is like having an orgasm.

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_01]: If you focus on it, you're never going to get it.

[00:55:21] [SPEAKER_01]: You just have to enjoy the process.

[00:55:24] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the rule.

[00:55:25] [SPEAKER_01]: You don't focus on making money.

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_01]: You make money by doing things that you love.

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Are you still blushing or should I continue on the next thing?

[00:55:31] [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, keep going.

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_01]: The second thing is why now?

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So why now has two parts.

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Why now is, first of all, what had changed in the last couple of years, but more importantly, what do you expect to change in the next few years that will allow you to solve the problem in the next three to five years at scale.

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And this problem could not have been solved five years ago.

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And that means what you're saying is, hey, am I intercepting the technologies of tomorrow to solve tomorrow's problem?

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Or am I using the yesterday's technology to solve tomorrow's problem?

[00:56:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Because if you take something that could have been done five years ago, by the time you implement, you're already obsolete because things are moving so fast.

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody is going to come behind you and actually make you obsolete, right?

[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So you're really looking at that.

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And the second part of the puzzle really is you never focus on how.

[00:56:22] [SPEAKER_01]: You focus on what needs to be done, right?

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_01]: So you never say, how am I going to do that?

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_01]: You simply say, what are the problems I need to solve for this big problem to be solved?

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So for example, if you say, hey, I want to live on Venus.

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_01]: You don't say, oh, how am I going to do that?

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_01]: You simply say, all right, what are the problems I need to solve?

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Number one, I have to be able to leave the Earth orbit.

[00:56:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Got it.

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_01]: You have to go from Earth orbit all the way to Venus orbit.

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Got it.

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Number three, I have to land on Venus.

[00:56:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Got it.

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Number four, find a way to live on Venus.

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So there are only four problems that need to be solved, right?

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And then you say, okay, we know going from Earth surface to Earth orbit, we know how to do that.

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_01]: It's called rocket.

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_01]: We have built them many times.

[00:57:04] [SPEAKER_01]: We know what to do.

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_01]: But going from Earth orbit to Venus orbit, we build the horizon.

[00:57:08] [SPEAKER_01]: It went all the way past Pluto.

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_01]: We know how to go long distances.

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe if you're going to take a bunch of humans, maybe we'll have to modify it a little bit.

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's an incremental problem.

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not a disruptive problem.

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Same thing landing on Venus.

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we landed on Mars three different ways.

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_01]: We did the bouncing ball.

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_01]: We did the crane.

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_01]: We did the parachute.

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe the atmosphere on Venus is slightly different, but we can modify one of these methods.

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_01]: But we know how to do it, right?

[00:57:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Living on Venus.

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Great.

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, this comes down to my last question.

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Why me?

[00:57:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Why me is what questions are you asking that are different from what everyone else in the industry is asking, right?

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So when you say, I want to live on Venus, the first question people say, how are you going to grow the food on the Venus?

[00:57:52] [SPEAKER_01]: If you ask that question, the only solution is to find a way to grow the food.

[00:57:57] [SPEAKER_01]: But if you ask yourself, why do we eat food?

[00:58:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And you say, oh, the reason we eat food is because I need energy and I need nutrition.

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Great.

[00:58:06] [SPEAKER_01]: What are the different ways can we get energy?

[00:58:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And suddenly you opened up the problem that may not require growing food, right?

[00:58:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Because there are bacteria that grow in the radioactive nuclear waste.

[00:58:16] [SPEAKER_01]: They get energy from radiation.

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_01]: They, in fact, have figured out how to protect their DNA from radiation and how to use radiation as a source of energy.

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, what if we can take their genes and modify ourselves to become radiation resistant?

[00:58:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And now we can use radiation as a source of energy.

[00:58:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Honey, do you want to go out and get some radiation?

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Not honey, do you want to go out and get some pizza?

[00:58:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And suddenly you have opened up a problem to solutions that were never possible before.

[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the key to understanding that changing, asking a different question opens up the possibility of the solution that had never been done.

[00:58:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the key of disruption is asking the question that no one did.

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_01]: But everyone in the industry was focused on DNA.

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_01]: We said DNA doesn't matter because DNA doesn't change when you become diabetic.

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_01]: DNA doesn't change when you have heart disease.

[00:59:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Your DNA doesn't change when you die.

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So DNA can't even tell you you're dead or alive, how will it ever tell you you're healthier or sicker?

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the wrong problem to solve.

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting because I think going through these questions like you just did, and I think you having this process,

[00:59:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's what gives you the enthusiasm and even the salesmanship to kind of sell these ideas in the sense that you're really presenting a vision

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_00]: that you almost defined it that you uniquely have.

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And then now you have to create this vision.

[00:59:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the interesting thing is you never ever have to sell something.

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_01]: The thing is, people buy.

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to sell.

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_01]: People buy things that they believe in.

[00:59:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So all you have to do is create a vision in such vivid details that they can actually imagine it and see it happening.

[01:00:00] [SPEAKER_01]: If they can imagine and see it happening, they start to believe in that.

[01:00:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And once they start to believe in that, they start to buy that vision.

[01:00:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[01:00:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the key.

[01:00:09] [SPEAKER_01]: People think they need to sell.

[01:00:11] [SPEAKER_01]: My job is never to sell.

[01:00:13] [SPEAKER_01]: My job is to help you buy.

[01:00:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:00:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, look, you have to, I guess what it is, is you're selling something you're so enthusiastic about it.

[01:00:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I always feel like sales means lying.

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Like in order to make the bridge between my brain, my seller's brain and your buyer's brain, someone has to lie.

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_00]: But if you're just kind of, if you're selling this vision of a better world and everybody could share into it, then the sale happens naturally.

[01:00:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like organic.

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly the point.

[01:00:44] [SPEAKER_01]: You create a shared view of the world is when the sale happens.

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_01]: That is the art of storytelling where you're creating a shared vision.

[01:00:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for putting that.

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_01]: That's brilliant.

[01:00:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So how much of your day do you spend on your business?

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I would say 910%.

[01:01:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's like kind of a shitty thing to say, but the point is I get up at 4 a.m. every day and that's all I do is until the day, until the minute I go to sleep, this is all I think about.

[01:01:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, my energy is, by the way, the same when I get up at 4 a.m. until I hit the pillow.

[01:01:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And when I hit the pillow, within five minutes, I'm out.

[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And what's your, do you want to take it public?

[01:01:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're probably sick of having public companies.

[01:01:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what do you want to do?

[01:01:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, honestly, James, I never, ever worry about what I want to do with the company I have.

[01:01:33] [SPEAKER_01]: It is really simple.

[01:01:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Neither the IPO nor stuff, this is not the, these are financing strategies, right?

[01:01:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So to me, if you build a great company, you have all the options available to you.

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_01]: You can sell the company, you can keep it private if you want, you can take it public if you want.

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_01]: If you build a shitty company, there's only one outcome that's open to you.

[01:01:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So don't build a shitty company, right?

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You keep building a great company and all the options that you want will always be available to you.

[01:02:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So you focus on every day you wake up, ask yourself, how am I going to help someone's life better?

[01:02:08] [SPEAKER_01]: That's it.

[01:02:08] [SPEAKER_01]: You keep improving people's life.

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_01]: That means your product and service is making people's life better.

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_01]: That means now they have, you have a loyal customer base.

[01:02:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you have a loyal customer base, you have a constant revenue.

[01:02:19] [SPEAKER_01]: If you have constant revenue, you have all the options open to you.

[01:02:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to ask selfishly then, like from the time I send in all my samples, how quickly do I get?

[01:02:29] [SPEAKER_00]: How quickly do you send me back results?

[01:02:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Nine days.

[01:02:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Average, all three samples process within nine days.

[01:02:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Right now, I look at the numbers every single day.

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_01]: My last number I saw was average of 90% of samples were returned in 9.1 days.

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And then with the same nine days, do I start getting like my supplements and powders and all this?

[01:02:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So basically, you get the results.

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you order them, it takes us about 10 days to custom make them for you.

[01:03:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So 10 days later, you will have a custom made supplements for you.

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Man, I'm going to try this to get better at chess.

[01:03:06] [SPEAKER_00]: This is going to help me.

[01:03:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, James, it will change your life.

[01:03:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Once again, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

[01:03:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Last time was, I think it was like nine years ago.

[01:03:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was 2015.

[01:03:19] [SPEAKER_00]: You were doing your Moon Express company.

[01:03:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you once again for coming on the podcast.

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Always an inspiration.

[01:03:24] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I remember very few podcasts from nine years ago, but I remember our podcast from nine years ago.

[01:03:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So I was very excited that you were coming on again.

[01:03:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I was looking forward to this.

[01:03:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, brother.

[01:03:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I really appreciate you as a human being.

[01:03:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And thank you for doing what you do.

[01:03:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And my hat's off to you.

[01:03:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And please continue to do that.

[01:03:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't get bored.

[01:03:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I won't.

[01:03:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I won't.

[01:03:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.