How To Ruin Your Life with a Quest

[00:00:01] This isn't your average business podcast and he's not your average host. This is the James Altucher Show

[00:00:09] First off before we get into our main

[00:00:21] Point of the day, which I think is this gonna be a very important podcast

[00:00:25] I just want to address some comments we got after our AI podcast

[00:00:30] someone said or a bunch of people said that

[00:00:35] Basically to me and to my guest Kevin Sarace and to Jay our producer said

[00:00:41] You're delusional if you think AI won't cost some jobs of course

[00:00:46] AI is gonna cost some jobs. That is not what we said in the podcast

[00:00:50] It's just like when cars were introduced, you know in the early 1900s

[00:00:56] Some people who rode horses lost their jobs

[00:00:59] But eventually there were many many many more jobs created in the

[00:01:05] Auto industry then were lost in the I don't know horse industry and did it happen overnight?

[00:01:12] Probably it did actually but who knows also there were jobs lost, you know jobs were lost Jay

[00:01:18] I bet you don't know this

[00:01:19] The key job was lost a key industry people who shoveled manure in the streets of New York City

[00:01:27] Yeah, lost their jobs because there used to be like like a foot of manure at the end of every day in New York City

[00:01:34] Because of all the horses

[00:01:36] Crapping on the street, you know driving Wall Street bankers around, you know everybody lived

[00:01:41] You know the suburbs were the Upper West Side in New York City

[00:01:44] And most people lived in Tribeca and they worked in downtown

[00:01:48] Which was basically the Wall Street area and just that number of people created like a foot of crap of horse manure

[00:01:55] In New York City every day all those people lost their jobs that industry disappeared, but again

[00:02:02] the world was a better place for it and

[00:02:05] many more jobs were created and

[00:02:08] People were able to live outside of New York City and live in nice

[00:02:13] Bigger places with yards in the suburbs because they would it was easier to commute, you know

[00:02:18] 20 30 then 40 miles and and on and on the benefits the benefits of every major innovation

[00:02:24] Has outpaced the disadvantages. We'll talk about the movie Oppenheimer and on another occasion will bring on

[00:02:32] Brian Keating our favorite physicist and talk about that and help him prepare for his

[00:02:38] upcoming appearance on the Joe Rogan show, but

[00:02:42] Here's the problem. Here's the real problem. Why are people?

[00:02:47] posting

[00:02:48] Comments, why don't people think why don't people have opinions about AI and they don't really think and then

[00:02:54] You know they have opinions without really knowing anything about the industry listen to that episode

[00:02:58] And we even say that the exact same thing I just said listen to the episode rather than just making an opinion and posting it on social media

[00:03:05] And that's the problem right we have right now

[00:03:08] We're many of us and I count myself in this category

[00:03:13] Often many of us are just miserable people looking for

[00:03:18] Every day looking for a scrap of an excuse to just keep on living and that sounds kind of bleak

[00:03:23] We just sit there like thumbing through social media like oh, I disagree with that person

[00:03:29] I have to comment. I have to comment so that so that people see my comment and

[00:03:35] Think about me and know who I am

[00:03:37] Yeah, they don't even like just just they don't even like click into it and see it

[00:03:41] They probably just see the headline and then you just start commenting without reading the whole thing or listening to the whole thing

[00:03:47] Yeah, right

[00:03:49] You know, I was I might have mentioned this on the podcast with Kevin actually

[00:03:54] But I was at this dinner a few weeks ago with a bunch of physicists

[00:03:58] Physicist chemist biologists and also science writers including one Pulitzer Prize winning physics writer

[00:04:03] And I couldn't believe how negative they were about every technology like right genomics or CRISPR

[00:04:10] They were saying is going to create a virus that's going to kill everybody on the planet forgetting the fact that

[00:04:15] It's already curing tons of diseases that people thought were incurable and it's good. It's only at the beginning

[00:04:22] It's only any one of that or

[00:04:25] AI oh

[00:04:27] This is that these are physicists talking AI they're gonna eventually

[00:04:31] Hand over the ability to launch nuclear weapons to AI and it's gonna kill all of us because the AI is gonna be

[00:04:38] Self-aware and have emotions. Oh, that was another comment someone said that it's pretty clear AI is gonna be self-aware

[00:04:43] No, it's not pretty clear. It's just when you boil it all down. It's just a bunch of statistics and

[00:04:50] Really big computers crunched for a year and a half on a bunch of data and produce statistics

[00:04:57] And that's what chat she BT is I'm summarizing that whole episode we did the other day in three lines

[00:05:03] It's much more complicated than that

[00:05:04] But why did all scientists almost all scientists so negative?

[00:05:08] I don't know and I said that like they were really critical of

[00:05:12] Space tourism, you know, you could pay to go on

[00:05:15] Richard Branson's Virgin Galactic for instance and they say oh, it's just a bunch of billionaires

[00:05:21] Virtue signaling how much money they have and I'm like, you know

[00:05:24] I grew up on like the TV show Star Trek is a show about space tourism, right?

[00:05:31] They're not allowed to they're exploring the final frontier and they're not allowed to change anything

[00:05:36] Right, they're just tourists

[00:05:38] so yeah, we all grew up loving this show and movies that were basically about a bunch of space tourists like Spock was a space tourists and

[00:05:48] Everybody should just relax because all of that sets the stage for

[00:05:51] Mining minerals on the moon for instance like we're you know, the earth could run out of rare earth minerals

[00:05:57] They're rare for a reason but the moon they're not rare and this you know powers are electric grid

[00:06:02] With so and then this one woman who was a physics professor

[00:06:07] At a very prestigious institution

[00:06:09] She she says to me because I was at the end of the dinner

[00:06:13] I couldn't believe what I was hearing so I finally said something and then she says to me

[00:06:16] Well, what about all our knowledge aren't you worried that all our knowledge is now being stored in?

[00:06:21] Digital form and it could just with a switch could all disappear

[00:06:26] And I'm like hey

[00:06:27] It's all everything is backed up a billion places and be the library of Alexandria in like what was it 300?

[00:06:37] AD or BC, I don't know it all burned down

[00:06:40] That was all the knowledge of Western civilization up to that point like paper could disappear

[00:06:44] But it's much harder for digital to disappear. Oh, but what if all electricity goes away?

[00:06:51] That's not gonna happen if all the electricity goes away. I'm not gonna be worried about

[00:06:56] Civilizations knowledge at that point like I have other things to worry about also like if all electricity go away

[00:07:03] I'm sure all the books and library at some points gonna erode and then you know

[00:07:08] There's no more knowledge passed on even though if they craft it into a wall

[00:07:13] No one know what they're talking about and it's still gonna, you know

[00:07:16] The knowledge of this was by the way

[00:07:18] It is the theme of quite a few science fiction novels where far in the future

[00:07:21] And in fact one series that was recently very popular

[00:07:25] I won't give any spoilers, but it is the theme that you that in the future after an apocalypse

[00:07:31] We could lose all knowledge, but just think of the order of that first comes apocalypse

[00:07:37] Then we lose knowledge. So yeah, other things to worry about if no one's gonna flip a switch and destroy all knowledge

[00:07:44] It's and by the way, it's all backed up

[00:07:47] So presumably a future civilization if they get technologically savvy can restore the backup

[00:07:53] That's like right just like we figured out how to read hieroglyphics. Somebody will be able to restore our backups

[00:07:59] It's probably easier to restore a backup than trying to figure out how to read a yeah

[00:08:04] Whatever totally because you had to decode the whole thing like you we didn't know for a thousand years

[00:08:09] We didn't know how or two thousand years. We didn't know how to decode hieroglyphics

[00:08:12] We had to figure out the code literally

[00:08:15] We had to debug it so but anyway the point I'm trying to make is gonna segue into

[00:08:21] This podcast which is there's a solution to all this angst and worry and anxiety

[00:08:28] pessimism and cynicism it's you know stop

[00:08:32] thinking about

[00:08:34] Other people which is hard in our society because of social media other people are like you wake up in the morning

[00:08:41] You just start doom scrolling on Twitter or you know threads or instant whatever it is

[00:08:47] Everybody so and I'm like this everybody's so concerned with what is everyone else doing?

[00:08:52] I'm just lying in bed scrolling like on Twitter, but what is everyone else doing?

[00:08:56] They're all doing something while I'm lying in bed

[00:08:59] And they're all have a and I maybe I can have an opinion on something so I better scroll and play me

[00:09:05] Here's a solution and this has really helped me

[00:09:08] Throughout my entire life

[00:09:10] It got it has helped me when I've been

[00:09:13] Broke after having money it has helped me come back from being broken and and you know make money again

[00:09:20] It has helped me when I've been depressed about things not going well with career or

[00:09:25] Whatever this is since I was a kid practically and I'm gonna simplify it and explain

[00:09:32] Go on a quest and I'll describe what I mean in a second

[00:09:36] But I've done this by entire life and I'll give you an example

[00:09:41] This is a personal example, but I will give it anyway one time. This was like 19

[00:09:46] This was this was like early 1996 or no late 1995. I was I had this

[00:09:52] girl I was dating and she was really smart, but I don't know she was an angry person

[00:09:59] we weren't quite clicking and but we were dating and

[00:10:04] one time I stay over and

[00:10:06] you

[00:10:08] Know this is just too much information, but I couldn't really you know, I was a young guy 1995

[00:10:15] But I wasn't really that attracted to her so things didn't happen and

[00:10:20] she's like oh you disgust me and she threw me out of her apartment and

[00:10:25] It's three in the morning and in the East Village in New York City

[00:10:28] And I walk on like a Tuesday night and I walk outside and the streets are packed

[00:10:34] And I'm thinking to myself

[00:10:35] I've got to wake up in a few hours to go to work like and I wasn't making any money my salary at the time

[00:10:41] Was not enough to live in New York City

[00:10:44] I had to make my way all the way back to wherever I lived and

[00:10:49] It was what are all these people doing?

[00:10:52] How can they have a how can they afford to do this?

[00:10:55] Don't they have to work in the morning or don't they have to go to school in the morning?

[00:10:58] Everybody was just out having it was like one giant party on a Tuesday night at three in the morning

[00:11:03] So I went on a quest and it changed my life

[00:11:07] It literally made me millions of dollars which I then proceeded to lose afterwards, but

[00:11:13] the quest was I

[00:11:15] Want to find out what I I'm an early sleep. I go to bed early. I want to find that I did all my life

[00:11:21] I want to find out what people are doing. Why are people up at three in the morning on a Tuesday night?

[00:11:26] I just wanted to know I had no idea. I didn't have any

[00:11:31] Even guesses where all these why the streets were packed at three in the morning on a Tuesday night

[00:11:51] What makes you at that point? What feeling do you have when you like, okay? Now I'm on the quest now

[00:11:57] I want to do a quest

[00:11:59] Well, I was insanely curious and I was kind of even a little bit

[00:12:04] Jealous like I had this nine to five cubicle life and yeah, I had a fun job. I worked at HBO

[00:12:11] Which is a fun place. I admired the company

[00:12:14] But I had this cubicle life. I had cubicle problems like oh the person in the cubicle next to me was

[00:12:21] Talking too loud or if my boss was upset at me

[00:12:25] You know, I was I lived and breathe on what other people thought about me

[00:12:29] And of course now my girlfriend at the time hated me or was disgusted with me

[00:12:35] I should say I don't know if she quite hated me but definitely was disgusted

[00:12:38] Let me just say by the way

[00:12:40] she was she I really like this person but she was the type of person literally would be walking in the street and

[00:12:46] But like homeless people just go up to her and spit in her face like she was just not a likable person

[00:12:51] She's exuded

[00:12:53] Unlikeability she was like her face was twisted in anger all the time why okay, so she has what we call

[00:13:00] resting bitch face then

[00:13:02] Yes, I suppose you would call that but men could have that too. I just want to add so but she

[00:13:08] She really had it because she she was also super smart

[00:13:11] So she literally she it was she had like her thoughts were always angry and but I but she was so funny because that that

[00:13:19] I was attracted to her humor and so on but anyway

[00:13:23] The point is I got insanely curious because I was maybe a little jealous like what is it about these people's lives that allowed them to basically

[00:13:34] You know have a great time at three in the morning

[00:13:36] And not when I was just a nervous wreck all the time and I had to be asleep at three in the morning

[00:13:41] If I wanted to go to work the next day and do well at my job

[00:13:44] I wanted to do well at my job

[00:13:46] I was afraid of getting fired and then I would have zero money

[00:13:48] I live paycheck to paycheck and if I got fired from what I thought was the best thing that ever happened to me

[00:13:54] I don't know what I would do

[00:13:56] So how are they always I really wanted to understand not only

[00:14:00] For for for curiosity because I was curious about them

[00:14:03] But because I was curious about me like how could I potentially live the sort of life where it doesn't matter if I'm out at

[00:14:10] 11 the morning or three in the morning or whatever like these people seem to have a certain freedom

[00:14:16] That I didn't have and so it became my quest

[00:14:20] To find out what these people were doing so at the time. I was in charge of

[00:14:26] HBO's website HBO didn't have a website. This was 1995. They had just bought HBO comm from home box

[00:14:33] Office calm. I mean they bought it from a company called HBO coming up previously

[00:14:37] There were home box office calm and so they bought HBO comm for guess how much I think you already know anyway $5,000

[00:14:47] $250,000 back in 1995 so so so how much would it work right now? We're including all the

[00:14:54] Millions like with all the oh if you wanted to buy HBO like well, no, maybe not anymore because they changed their brand

[00:15:00] I don't know what to buy HBO then so if they if they were called

[00:15:06] Home box office the whole time and then tomorrow. Yeah, like I want to buy HBO comm

[00:15:11] How much would they pay for they?

[00:15:14] Probably probably like five to ten million really is that yeah, is that how much the three letter domain cost right now?

[00:15:22] First off, it's a three letter domain

[00:15:24] They just all three letter domains are probably at least a million oh and on top of it

[00:15:30] It's the brand right one of the most powerful brands in the United States if not the world

[00:15:35] So so it would be whoever sat on that domain would be very rich, but yes

[00:15:41] I don't even know why they were so insightful to buy HBO comm. I mean I was really pushing

[00:15:48] The the web they didn't when I first got there they didn't want to do a website at all

[00:15:52] They thought it's just a waste of time

[00:15:53] It's something that academics play with and forget this internet stuff

[00:15:57] So maybe it was me shaking the tree that get them got them to buy HBO comm

[00:16:01] You propose them to buy HBO comm or did they just buy themselves?

[00:16:05] I

[00:16:06] Did not but I did tell I mean it was basically the CEO who had decided

[00:16:11] Who later became the CEO of Time Warner Jeff Bukas?

[00:16:14] Really I think he was a really as far as

[00:16:18] Measuring the success of a CEO. He was a very brilliant guy and did a very good job

[00:16:23] Not only for HBO but later on for Time Warner particularly when Time Warner was trying to absorb the

[00:16:29] Devastating mistake of buying AOL he became a CEO after they bought AOL and fix the situation and of course recently

[00:16:37] He retired when

[00:16:39] HBO got bought by I don't know some phone company for

[00:16:42] Not it's not HBO but Time Warner got acquired by some phone company. I forget Verizon

[00:16:47] I think AT&T I think AT&T yeah for like, I don't know hundreds of billions

[00:16:51] I don't know the exact number must be a time travel that like hey you have to buy HBO. I

[00:16:57] Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm glad they did it but the point is I

[00:17:01] Was in charge of HBO comm at the time

[00:17:03] Nobody knew what to do with it and so I went up to

[00:17:08] Jeff Bukas and and by the way was very inappropriate that I did this

[00:17:13] But again, I first first thing actually I'll describe something else. I

[00:17:17] Was on this quest. I needed to find out what was going on in a three in the morning

[00:17:21] And and it seemed like also I could do it. I could go on this quest

[00:17:26] With as part of my job now technically my job my title was

[00:17:32] junior programmer analyst in the IT department

[00:17:36] So that was my job, but somehow I figured I could figure out a way to

[00:17:42] make it my job to

[00:17:46] Combine my job with this quest to find out what is going on at three in the morning in a city like New York City

[00:17:52] So the first thing I did was I went to Comedy Central

[00:17:55] so I went to the Comedy Central IT department and Comedy Central at that time just so you know was half owned by

[00:18:02] HBO oh and

[00:18:05] Yeah, so then the and I think showtime owned the other half, you know Viacom owned the other half

[00:18:12] so

[00:18:13] So I was friends with the head of IT at Comedy Central because I was an IT at HBO

[00:18:18] She asked for my help to build nobody nobody had internets then, you know like an internal internet

[00:18:25] so I had built one for HBO and

[00:18:29] I'm visiting Comedy Central and she's asking me to help them build their internal network their internet and

[00:18:36] I said I will do it

[00:18:38] But I want one thing

[00:18:40] I want the 3 a.m

[00:18:42] Time slot because you'd run I said you run ads at 3 a.m

[00:18:46] Like they didn't really have any TV shows at 3 a.m. Comedy Central

[00:18:48] I don't know if they do now

[00:18:49] They just read ads like infomercials and I said I want the 3 a.m. Time slot

[00:18:54] I'm gonna just live ask people what do you do at 3 a.m. What are you doing at 3 in the morning in New York City?

[00:19:00] By the way, this would be an enormous TikTok channel now

[00:19:03] Like there's that guy who walks around New York City like what do you do for a living? Oh, I'm prove to her a podcast

[00:19:08] What's the favorite thing you like about your job? Oh talking to people. That's what's up

[00:19:12] You know that guy?

[00:19:13] I know yeah, and also the other guys like you go around like oh what dude?

[00:19:16] How much is your rent can that tour your home?

[00:19:19] Oh, yeah

[00:19:19] There's that guy and there's the same guy does that in Dubai also and he's always going in like these sheiks

[00:19:24] Parts can we get that desk? What's up guy on the podcast? I can I can I can look at it

[00:19:30] Yeah, so anyway, so

[00:19:33] She said okay, I'll find out if I could do this

[00:19:35] So she has to see you have come to Central guy named Doug Herzog at the time

[00:19:38] She has to see you of

[00:19:40] Comedy Central if I could do this and he said no way

[00:19:44] Meanwhile fast forward a year a couple years later

[00:19:46] They did a show with David Tal called insomniac about what people do it in the middle of the night in New York

[00:19:50] Wait, you know so them?

[00:19:52] No, no, it's all it's all good. It's all good, but meanwhile meanwhile I went up to

[00:19:59] at some Christmas party at

[00:20:02] HBO I went up to the CEO so just to put into context my bosses bosses bosses bosses bosses boss

[00:20:10] Was the CEO of HBO?

[00:20:12] I went over the heads of all my bosses the six bosses in between and I wanted Jeff Lucas and I said hey

[00:20:19] Just like HBO has this great original TV shows like

[00:20:25] Sex in the City and you know later on it would be the Sopranos and other shows. Let's do original web shows

[00:20:31] Let's make web entertainment not and let's make that HBO comm is not just a marketing pamphlet for our shows and

[00:20:40] He said you know what?

[00:20:42] I don't give a shit do whatever you want. I don't care

[00:20:45] And so I went back to my boss and I said I just spoke to Jeff Lucas

[00:20:50] He said what and I said just spoke to the CEO and he said why'd you?

[00:20:54] Go above my head. He was very upset, but I said look. I'm sorry. I'll bring you next time

[00:20:59] But he said I have to do original web shows. He said we really wants original web shows for HBO comm and

[00:21:08] He's like well, what do you mean? I'm like well here's an idea and

[00:21:11] I said how about I go around the city at 3 in the morning and ask people what they do

[00:21:16] What why are they doing?

[00:21:18] I what are they doing up at 3 a.m?

[00:21:20] On a Tuesday night or Wednesday Saturday night or Friday night no problem

[00:21:24] They don't have to work the next day. They're out at a bar whatever

[00:21:28] But why are they out on a Wednesday night?

[00:21:30] Don't they have to work or or what is it about their lives that allows them to be out at 3 in the morning?

[00:21:35] and so

[00:21:37] Finally

[00:21:39] Everyone agreed for me doing this and I got a video guy. I got a photographer

[00:21:45] I got HBO made me bring a security guy for a while, but eventually I got rid of that guy

[00:21:50] I had a production assistant who we have to say we had to sign release get release form signed by everybody

[00:21:56] And I would go out

[00:21:58] We would meet it around 2 a.m. Or 2 30 a.m

[00:22:01] In the east village or the knee packing district or some of these cd areas

[00:22:04] They're not cd anymore, but back then they were cd. This is 1996 wait, what are you doing?

[00:22:10] Like um, what do I see the you know the meat packing district now is like all fancy with clubs right back then it was all

[00:22:17] prostitutes, so that's the term all pro it was 100%

[00:22:21] prostitutes and

[00:22:22] Johns and literally it was called the meat packing district because there were meat processing plants right there

[00:22:28] And so there would be like these weird

[00:22:30] Fires of meat burning on the sidewalk and then there would be these prostitutes walking around and and the johns and the pimps

[00:22:37] And all that stuff and in the low-ree side was all like homeless people and you know

[00:22:43] kind of people living in um

[00:22:46] There was like squatting and rundown abandoned apartment buildings or there were underground radio stations or there was drug dealers we we

[00:22:54] Um

[00:22:56] I went all over the city at three in the morning because I did this till I ended up doing this from 1996 to mid 1998

[00:23:03] Oh, what two and a half year

[00:23:05] Yeah, it was the best experience like every

[00:23:07] Wednesday night

[00:23:09] Go out and from 2 a.m. Till about 4 30 a.m. I would just go up to people and i'll say hey

[00:23:17] Why what are you doing? What are you up to? What are you up to at three in the morning? And

[00:23:22] Invariably

[00:23:24] Nobody was up to anything good like I would just talk to random people and

[00:23:31] almost every single

[00:23:33] Almost every single Wednesday. I talked to at least

[00:23:36] Just by coincidence like at least one dominatrix like who's like a prostitute that

[00:23:42] Uh for that satisfies a particular fetish of men

[00:23:46] Wanting to be beaten up or whatever right?

[00:23:48] I would talk I would certainly run into like drug dealers or pimps or or their customers

[00:23:54] Um talked to homeless people

[00:23:56] Talked to people, you know cheating on their spouses

[00:23:59] Uh, I would sometimes after a while. I lived in the chelsea hotel, which is a

[00:24:06] You could google it. It was a weird sort of place

[00:24:08] Sometimes I would just sit in the lobby there and wait for people to come in and say why are you out at three in the morning?

[00:24:14] And nobody was was up to anything good and most people would lie to me

[00:24:18] But and it was just crazy. I ran into like

[00:24:21] One person I knew and i'm like, oh, what are you doing out here?

[00:24:24] And I knew him his name was luke and he and he wouldn't say but it was pretty clear

[00:24:30] There was an older man next thing was like he was a male prostitute and I didn't know that about him

[00:24:34] but so just

[00:24:36] I would and then I started running into the same people over and over there were a kind of there was a kind of

[00:24:40] Person who only was out in the middle of the night

[00:24:44] Uh, and they would never be out during the day. So there was a whole different

[00:24:48] Culture and subcultures at three in the morning was like the opposite of what happens during the day

[00:24:53] There was nobody in suits going to work. It was all just these

[00:24:57] Random people living this this these alternative lifestyles

[00:25:01] Some of them were very happy some of them weren't so happy. I did one time

[00:25:05] I I did the bus stop

[00:25:08] That there's one bus stop where there's a bus 24 hours a day that takes people to rikers island, which is a jail

[00:25:15] it's an island right outside of queens that is a jail and

[00:25:21] The law is if you're bailed out no matter what time it is

[00:25:24] You could get bailed out and picked up and new people would take this bus back and forth

[00:25:28] Like their parents or their siblings or their friends would take the bus to bail them out

[00:25:32] And then they would come back

[00:25:34] on the bus

[00:25:35] And at the bus stop

[00:25:38] Would be all of their, you know

[00:25:40] The pimps and the prostitutes and the drug dealers because it was their customers coming back from rikers island

[00:25:46] and we spent like

[00:25:48] A month just gather, you know interviewing everybody gathering information

[00:25:52] And that was actually we turned that into a kind of a pilot of a tv show and it was really just beautiful

[00:25:58] Wait, what is it called? What is the tv show called?

[00:26:01] 3am the whole project was called 3am right, okay

[00:26:04] No, I thought the pilot was for another show

[00:26:07] No, no, no, it was we you know, we shot we got we had a budget because eventually what happened was is that she'll and evance

[00:26:13] Who's been on this podcast? Yes, she um

[00:26:16] wanted to

[00:26:17] She wanted to replace the show real sex, which was a very popular show on hbo

[00:26:21] And she and she thought maybe 3am would be a replacement and we did that

[00:26:26] Segment and she loved it. She paid for for me to have a producer a real producer a real cameraman and

[00:26:32] She loved it. Uh, but then we we did a segment that wasn't as good

[00:26:35] She didn't love it and I left hbo to start a business

[00:26:40] But you know the whole point is is that me going on this quest

[00:26:44] Let there's such an exciting experience in my life

[00:26:46] And also it led to other companies approaching me and saying hey

[00:26:50] Can you do something really creative for us?

[00:26:52] Like american express came to me con Edison came to me

[00:26:56] Every record label came to me other movie studios came to me

[00:26:59] So I was able to start a company my first company reset

[00:27:02] I left hbo ultimately

[00:27:04] And started a company making websites mostly for entertainment companies

[00:27:07] What we also did american express calm con Edison calm

[00:27:11] I had never had any money in my life and suddenly

[00:27:13] I had this business because

[00:27:16] Of this quest that I went on to find out simply to find out

[00:27:20] What people were up to at three in the morning like I wanted to know for me

[00:27:24] I didn't want to I wasn't judging anybody

[00:27:26] I didn't have any opinions and I think that's why people spoke to me is because I just

[00:27:31] Was really innocently curious. I mean I would interrupt couples

[00:27:35] While they were arguing like what are you guys arguing about?

[00:27:38] Oh, I found some girl's phone number in his pocket

[00:27:41] And he the guy's like I don't even know who that is

[00:27:44] And you know some bs

[00:27:46] Is there any uh any good story come up for me like the like

[00:27:50] Like you said like you know like three and everyone up to no good any good story that you

[00:27:55] You like heartfelt story

[00:27:57] from that

[00:27:58] Oh, yeah many many I mean

[00:28:00] There were people who were just you know

[00:28:02] Mentally ill and struggling to survive and they couldn't get jobs in in the day and they lived on you know welfare

[00:28:09] And they were addicted to heroin and and this was their culture

[00:28:13] Their subculture was being out at three in the morning and I I got to know a lot of these people

[00:28:18] But I'll tell you one story. That was a crazy story

[00:28:22] Interrupt me if I've told this on the podcast before

[00:28:24] but

[00:28:26] At 4 a.m. We would stop for the day and we'd go to the empire diner for just to kind of finish off the day

[00:28:32] finish off the evening and

[00:28:34] For in the morning empire diner was on 11th avenue and 22nd street

[00:28:39] And the wagers always knew who we were and she always helped us out

[00:28:42] She said oh check out this table at the at the other end there

[00:28:45] And so they looked like a bunch of guys and girls celebrating

[00:28:48] And I went over to them and I'm like, what are you guys celebrating about?

[00:28:51] And there's one guy with the british accent. He says well this lovely lady and I just got engaged

[00:28:57] And i'm just you know, I we had the cameras on my video guy always had his camera on and i'm like, oh

[00:29:05] I don't believe it prove it kiss each other and so he grabs the girl and they start like making out and

[00:29:12] I only found out

[00:29:14] Later

[00:29:15] Like you know after we had been talking for like 20 minutes after that they did not know each other at all

[00:29:21] they were like for they had just they hadn't even spoken ever and they had just met and

[00:29:26] That was the first time they ever said anything to each other was they just started making out

[00:29:30] And then about a year later

[00:29:33] I ran into somebody who was sitting at that table and said hey, you're the guy

[00:29:37] You're that 3am guy

[00:29:39] And he said I was at the empire diner that one time and you got my friend kissing that girl

[00:29:44] He was actually engaged to another girl in england. He broke up with that girl

[00:29:50] and

[00:29:51] the girl who he kissed moved with him to england and they were

[00:29:57] Living together dating for a while and then they just broke up and he said but that was all because you got them

[00:30:01] to kiss you like

[00:30:03] Either helped their lives or ruined their lives forever. Well, because for all you know, he could be in a very happy engagement

[00:30:11] That because of you he he kissed another girl

[00:30:15] ended up breaking up that happy

[00:30:18] Engagement

[00:30:19] Well, let's put it this way

[00:30:21] It couldn't have been that happy an engagement if if with one second notice, he's willing to make out with another girl

[00:30:26] Yeah, you're right

[00:30:27] So chances are that marriage would not have worked out. So I at the very least I helped the girl

[00:30:33] He had previously been engaged to yes

[00:30:35] She should write to you and thank you if she's listening to the park. She's listening

[00:30:40] I'm the reason

[00:30:41] your fiance

[00:30:43] Kissed that random girl

[00:30:45] Who oddly I remember one detail. I can't remember what she looked like. I remember she worked at microsoft

[00:30:49] Like I do remember that she was like a sales rep at microsoft and um

[00:30:54] So so there were but I had lots of stories like that. It was like

[00:30:58] I was like the first podcaster on the internet. I was basically

[00:31:02] Interviewing people and then putting the interviews on the worldwide web just like we do with this podcast

[00:31:07] Now I wouldn't put the audio because there wasn't bandwidth, right?

[00:31:11] But I would put photos and then here's what I did. I didn't have designers

[00:31:15] To design everything and if you look at 1990s web design, it was a little overdone

[00:31:21] There was too much design now things are much more minimal and simple which I like better

[00:31:26] But I would basically open it up to the web design community like and allow designers

[00:31:32] To compete with each other to design the pages that each interview was on so each interview

[00:31:37] I would do four interviews a week and each interview

[00:31:40] Was designed differently and then we'd put photos and every once in a while

[00:31:44] We'd put video but it was hard to there was no streaming the video. It was hard to download the video

[00:31:48] Do you accidentally created 99 design?

[00:31:51] You know 99 design dot com, right?

[00:31:53] They put a request out and then they have people compete to design for a website or a cover

[00:31:59] Right. That's what I did basically so you actually created 99 design

[00:32:03] Right. I I wish I had any business sense at all because

[00:32:07] It would have really worked out for it like I had I did so many things in the 90s

[00:32:10] That could have made me a lot of money, but I knew nothing about business like that's a whole another topic is

[00:32:16] It's not just about creating a great product and and making a profitable business. You really have to know

[00:32:22] What business means in order to make money? You can't just sell things and make money

[00:32:27] Right. You have to you have to know

[00:32:30] What are the different types of businesses how people value businesses

[00:32:34] How to structure a business how to scale a business like there's all these subtleties that I had no

[00:32:39] Clue about how to describe your business so that it is worth more than if you describe it a different way

[00:32:45] And but anyway, that's another topic

[00:32:48] um, but I'm just describing this as

[00:32:51] This gave my life

[00:32:53] Like I was really depressed at hbo actually at first because I was working in this cubicle

[00:32:59] I was working on this stuff this programming

[00:33:01] That was really awful and

[00:33:04] I I didn't even know how to program like I have gotten an undergrad for computer science and grad school for computer science

[00:33:09] And I was such a bad programmer after all this quote-unquote education

[00:33:13] They had to send me to remedial classes on programming and I was just I thought I was going to get fired

[00:33:18] And just going on this quest

[00:33:21] Not only made me so much happier at work and it also made me kind of known within the company like I was this

[00:33:26] 3am guy, so I was starting to get promoted

[00:33:29] I was getting other offers and using that to get higher and higher salary

[00:33:33] But then it even led to me starting a business like it changed my life and it gave me this whole

[00:33:39] I I must have interviewed

[00:33:41] Thousands of people, you know for two and a half years

[00:33:44] I would interview about 20 people

[00:33:46] A week or 15 to 20 people a week and then put four interviewed the best four

[00:33:51] up every week and so

[00:33:53] I don't know. I must have interviewed at least like a thousand people

[00:33:55] So I got my interview skills and I learned so much about other people

[00:34:01] Uh

[00:34:02] And about and about also making a great website

[00:34:06] So it gave me this this going on a quest

[00:34:09] Allowed me to not focus on my own problems

[00:34:12] But actually I felt this pleasure of like, you know, it was difficult too because

[00:34:18] I was shy

[00:34:19] How do you just go up to people in the middle of the night and say hey tell me what you're doing?

[00:34:24] So I helped me overcome shyness and helped me

[00:34:27] Get people talking and help them, you know, it gave me a lot of skills and then it gave me

[00:34:33] You know things to look forward to

[00:34:35] And and and a different perspective on life. So it changed my life completely just being curious and then

[00:34:41] going on a quest and and

[00:34:44] You know another quest was like when I

[00:34:47] Did stand up comedy like I was just curious like I always was curious like how do these people

[00:34:51] Make people laugh from stage like I'm funny at a party or whatever, but then making people strangers

[00:34:58] Laugh from a stage. That's that's hard. How do people do it? So that was a seven-year quest that led to me

[00:35:04] Buying part of a comedy club and going up on stage, you know, almost seven days a week and traveling around the world

[00:35:10] I mean I went to

[00:35:11] You know, I travel with Tony Woods one of the greatest comedians ever

[00:35:14] He was just on Joe Rogan travel Tony Woods all over the world

[00:35:19] Doing comedy and that was a quest or

[00:35:23] Or, you know more recently, you know

[00:35:27] F you know, you know, I was having kind of a down period after that New York City article came out and

[00:35:34] I went on a quest again, which was

[00:35:36] to take just back off from social media where I was getting death threats every

[00:35:40] half second and

[00:35:43] Take this childhood love of mine, which was

[00:35:46] You know, I was a chess master when I was much younger

[00:35:49] Still am because the title is forever, but I wanted to get back to my old skills

[00:35:54] in chess

[00:35:55] And this quest has been amazing. Like I've gone to Norway and had dinner with the world chess champion

[00:36:01] I've I've traveled all over the place playing chess. I'm the georgia senior chess champion about to compete in the u.s

[00:36:08] senior championship and

[00:36:11] uh

[00:36:11] All these friends from 25 years ago

[00:36:14] I'm meeting them and I don't know the quest is still ongoing, but it's been

[00:36:20] It's been a life-changing experience also understanding the effects of aging on my brain and how to fix those

[00:36:26] You know things that are happening and and be a better person for it

[00:36:29] Like this whole experience the quest is again still ongoing, but it's made me eat better exercise better sleep better

[00:36:36] Deal with loss better deal with social media better

[00:36:39] Uh sharpen my brain sharp. I've taken lessons from the world memory champion

[00:36:45] So this has been a quest that's been life changing

[00:37:05] I wanted to talk about like what is a quest like like when you think of a quest, what do you think of j

[00:37:10] well

[00:37:11] It's funny. It's like I was about to ask you what's the difference between quests and purposes

[00:37:15] And missions right so for me I felt like

[00:37:19] You know quest

[00:37:21] It's someone that gives you the quest. So let's say if you are

[00:37:26] If you're in a story, let's say your whole life is a story

[00:37:29] The quest is some all of a sudden the word is ending and then uh all bearded

[00:37:35] Kung fu master just show up

[00:37:37] In front of you and be like hey, you have the potential. Here's your quest to save the world

[00:37:43] Well, you still have to remember you still have to choose to go on the quest

[00:37:47] Like luke skywalker didn't want to leave

[00:37:50] Uh

[00:37:51] Tatooine at first he had to even after obi-wan konobi told him everything

[00:37:57] He's like I gotta wait one more season because I promised my uncle

[00:38:01] And it was only the uncle getting killed by storm troopers that luke finally

[00:38:06] Went on his quest which was to learn about the force and save prince islea and destroy the death star and on and on

[00:38:13] He he did not want to do it at first. You have to choose

[00:38:17] To go on the quest your curiosity has to be and here's the difference between a quest and a mission

[00:38:22] A mission you know what's going to happen. I'm going to do this. I'm gonna I'm gonna

[00:38:27] You know save all I'm going to spread malaria nets mosquito nets to all the people in ava

[00:38:32] That's my mission and I'm going to do it and save africa from malaria

[00:38:36] That's my mission or I'm going to teach people about leadership

[00:38:40] So I'm going to write a book about everything I've learned about leadership and that's my mission

[00:38:44] A mission is almost kind of arrogant like the idea that you know you can do something and you're you're

[00:38:50] God put you down on this earth to do this purpose or mission. I don't really believe

[00:38:55] in those a quest is

[00:38:57] You don't you don't know what's going to happen

[00:39:00] Luke Skywalker wanted to save the princess

[00:39:02] He didn't know if he believed in the force

[00:39:05] But he was ready for adventure excitement. He had nothing left on taz tuine

[00:39:09] He was ready to go on his quest a quest is more like a non-fiction arc of the hero

[00:39:16] Almost whereas a mission is like an arrogant like oh, this is my purpose. I have a purpose that

[00:39:23] The the overlords implanted in me and not this is what my dna is forcing me to do

[00:39:28] would you say mission has an end goal that you got to achieve or has a

[00:39:34] End goal target that you can see whereas quest is more like the it's more about the journey

[00:39:40] It's more about let's do this and see what it's about both

[00:39:43] But because look a famous quest in

[00:39:46] Fictional history is the knights of the round table for king arthur. They had to find something called the holy grail

[00:39:54] And they never actually found the holy grail. They never found it. So the quest

[00:39:59] didn't work

[00:40:01] Or it did work because all of the stories and adventures around king arthur are because of this quest

[00:40:07] So so yes, the journey is really important and you know, I've been thinking like what are the components of that journey first off

[00:40:14] The quest is

[00:40:16] For you. There's something personal

[00:40:18] you have to

[00:40:20] Find out about yourself when you go on this quest like again luke skywalker

[00:40:24] He had to discover the force within himself or me with this chest thing

[00:40:30] I had to figure out

[00:40:32] You know what I had to realize i'm no longer as good as I was when I was younger and I had and and there's some things

[00:40:38] I can't get good at anymore like my memory is different or my

[00:40:42] Calculation ability is different or my ability to stay up all night and then play well the next day that ability is gone

[00:40:49] So I have to figure out things about myself

[00:40:53] You know as part of this journey and then

[00:40:57] And then so there's all these challenges. There's like a mission doesn't necessarily have challenges

[00:41:03] I have challenges like my first tournament back. I lost something like seven out of eight games and

[00:41:09] These are obstacles. These are real obstacles and then I have to find

[00:41:14] Like in the arc of the hero, I have to find allies people to help me

[00:41:18] So I had to find coaches and I had to find

[00:41:20] people who are my level to to

[00:41:23] To exchange ideas and notes. I had to find people who are going through the same thing

[00:41:27] I was like older people maybe who were trying to to play and they and most people told me I was delusional so

[00:41:34] You know along with these obstacles and these allies. There's also villains and and

[00:41:39] People who are a antagonistic to me. They're trying to stop me from doing my quest

[00:41:44] And so then you go on the journey and the journey has trials like oh, I'm gonna play in this tournament

[00:41:49] But oh, I lost this tournament and then I lost this other one and then oh, I've got to somehow get to Norway to

[00:41:55] Have dinner with the world chess champion and and on and on there's there's a journey

[00:42:01] And adventures happen and then you transform

[00:42:05] Hopefully you transform and you have growth like so that oh, I realize I need to sleep better

[00:42:09] Or I need to eat a little better never drink alcohol and

[00:42:14] Instead of wasting time on social media. I'll

[00:42:16] Study some more positions to to get ready for the next tournament and so I grow and transform

[00:42:24] And I sacrifice so I sacrifice social media or sometimes you have to sacrifice things that are important to you like

[00:42:29] Oh, I haven't been writing as much or I might not

[00:42:33] You know spend as much time with this person so I can spend time doing this

[00:42:37] and

[00:42:38] ultimately

[00:42:40] You you hopefully

[00:42:42] Achieve the goal of the quest and then you return to tell the tale but that all together is is a quest and

[00:42:51] I encourage people

[00:42:53] Don't just live that cubicle life

[00:42:56] Don't just be or even if you're not living the cubicle life. Let's say you're just

[00:43:00] Let's say you don't have a job, but you're and you're feeling down or depressed or let's say your relationships

[00:43:05] aren't quite working for you at the moment

[00:43:08] find

[00:43:09] What is it you're insanely curious about or what is it that you're curious about when you were younger and

[00:43:15] Test the waters begin this quest. What do I need to do?

[00:43:19] What does this journey look like for me to achieve a certain goal?

[00:43:22] Maybe you want to write your first novel. Maybe you want to go to a yoga retreat in india and become a yoga teacher

[00:43:29] Maybe you want to start your first business

[00:43:32] You know, what are the what do you think you're going to be wrong by the way?

[00:43:36] But what do you think are the steps you need to take and take that first step?

[00:43:40] I find a lot of people

[00:43:42] They they want to write that first novel

[00:43:44] And they go out at night with their friends every night and eat dinner and drink and have fun

[00:43:50] And they're always saying i'm going to write that novel this year

[00:43:52] I'm going to write it, but they never do it like figure out. What is the first step?

[00:43:57] What's the second step take those steps?

[00:44:00] Assume there's going to be obstacles along the way because you're not the whole reason you're not at the goal

[00:44:05] It's because you don't you never did it. You're not you don't know what to do

[00:44:08] You don't know the things that are in between starting the quest and ending the quest

[00:44:13] Luke Skywalker didn't know he'd have to learn the force. He didn't know he'd have to save the princess

[00:44:19] um in the Death Star and the most lethal weapon ever created

[00:44:24] And assume some people find the people will help you like the Han solos and Obi-Wan Kenobi's or in my case

[00:44:32] chess coaches chess allies, you know

[00:44:36] The the the really gracious people who have allowed me to to write for them at at new and chess and other places

[00:44:43] And these are your helpers and allies. There's going to be villains the people who tell me i'm delusional or the people who

[00:44:51] you know

[00:44:53] Make fun of me whatever

[00:44:55] Or it could even be people who you know very well who are very skeptical

[00:44:59] And now you begin the journey and have those trials and see the growth

[00:45:05] And make the sacrifices and you change as a person

[00:45:08] It could be as the quest sounds that doesn't even matter what the quest is

[00:45:12] It could be as dumb as trying to get better at chess or it could be I want to make a billion dollars

[00:45:19] Although I will tell you whenever I've had whenever I thought I was on a quest to make money

[00:45:23] Was probably the most unhappy time of my life because

[00:45:26] I mean, I'm just curious like like you know, like just finding quests and stuff like that

[00:45:31] But like how do you know you found the right quest?

[00:45:35] Like my quest is I want to win a Grammy

[00:45:38] I'm like, okay, and then I was working in a studio and then now I'm in podcasting

[00:45:43] I'm like, am I still on track to win a Grammy? You know what I mean

[00:45:47] Well, this is a great question jay

[00:45:51] And the truth is you don't really know you nobody nobody's gonna come down and tell you

[00:45:57] Oh, jay, you have found the right quest for yourself

[00:46:00] You have you know, just that's why it's so that's why it's so much bs

[00:46:04] Where people like oh, this is my purpose. This is my mission

[00:46:07] You just don't know and you don't and by the way you might

[00:46:12] Halfway through the quest it might be so frustrating and challenges might be so great

[00:46:16] You give up and that's okay too

[00:46:18] Again, this is where the journey is very important. It's not the only thing that's important

[00:46:22] I don't believe when people say it's not the goal. It's the journey. It's both the journey is

[00:46:28] The goal is very important

[00:46:29] But the journey is just as important

[00:46:31] And so if you feel like quitting a quest and starting a new one

[00:46:35] then do it but

[00:46:38] uh, if you truly

[00:46:40] Let's say you have a

[00:46:41] Like for me if I have a horrible tournament, I think to myself. Oh, that's it. I quit

[00:46:47] I'm just this is too painful. I'm not getting there. I'm not going to do it

[00:46:51] Uh

[00:46:52] And so on but then the next day if you wake up and you find yourself

[00:46:56] Huh, what's the next step?

[00:46:58] Like it's because you love this quest so much

[00:47:01] It's not even like I have fun that sometimes playing in these tournaments particularly what I'm losing

[00:47:05] But you love if I love the quest so much that the next day

[00:47:09] After I hit one of these obstacles

[00:47:11] I'm still waking up with just as much energy or maybe it's not the next day

[00:47:14] Maybe it's the next week. I'm waking up with just as much

[00:47:17] energy

[00:47:18] To to pursue keep pursuing the quest then you then you just stick with it

[00:47:22] You let your you let your body and your emotions tell you

[00:47:25] To stick with it and you're gonna feel like quitting sometimes too

[00:47:28] And that's maybe times when you need to take a break because you can get overloaded

[00:47:31] So are you saying that so if you feel like you're quitting

[00:47:34] She'll just take a nap

[00:47:36] Because you are cranky now just again when you when you when you when you feel like you you want to quit

[00:47:41] It should take a day off

[00:47:44] Just slip it off and see how you feel the next day

[00:47:47] Yeah, or take a few days off sometimes I'll take three or four days off from studying

[00:47:52] Or or interacting with people or playing or whatever and but you know what's been great for me is that

[00:47:59] It got me off

[00:48:01] social media

[00:48:03] It it got me to eat better. It got me to improve my memory

[00:48:07] It got me to work hard at something again. I had forgotten what it was like to to really

[00:48:12] You know the podcast is hard the podcast is a lot of work and other things I do are a lot of work, but this is like

[00:48:18] performing brain surgery on myself every day to get better at chess particularly at this age and

[00:48:25] uh, but I was I I won the georgia senior championship for people over 50

[00:48:30] I'm about to play in the u.s senior championship in a few days

[00:48:33] And it's been difficult and it's been excruciating sometimes

[00:48:38] But it's also been extremely fun and pleasurable and I've learned so much

[00:48:42] About myself and it it it got me away from

[00:48:46] Just the mire that I was being sucked into

[00:48:49] From that old article I wrote and from some other things that were happening to me at the time

[00:48:52] Like I had a kind of a negative period in like late 2020 early 2021

[00:48:58] and I would just wasn't

[00:49:00] showing up for things

[00:49:02] And and a quest is something you show up for

[00:49:06] And you're proud of it and you love it and you pursue it and it's not always fun

[00:49:10] But but it's the pursuit is worth it. And that's that's really the thing now for you

[00:49:16] If it's your quest to to to win a Grammy

[00:49:20] Well, what is the next step? But here's the thing

[00:49:24] You can experiment with lots of things like at the end of 2020 there were lots of things I was experimenting with

[00:49:29] Chess was just one of them. But but there were others too like I was

[00:49:35] You know trying to start different different internet businesses as you remember I was um

[00:49:42] I was I got really into betting on the election in 2020. So I'm really getting that

[00:49:47] Yeah, I was really getting into we had the guys from predicted on I was really getting into

[00:49:52] Event betting and you were into presidential too

[00:49:55] Yeah, I was I ran I started running for president and I thought I was going to take that really seriously

[00:50:01] But I ended up being more of a a joke

[00:50:04] And this is the thing that survived you experiment with a bunch of different quests

[00:50:08] And this is the thing that survived. So again, what's a quest?

[00:50:12] Quest is the first half of question. So it starts with you

[00:50:16] being really insanely curious about something where you really don't know the answer and then

[00:50:22] What would it take for you to know that answer? What is the goal? What is how would you know?

[00:50:26] You know the answer well for me if I reach a certain level

[00:50:30] I think that will be the objective of this quest. We'll see

[00:50:35] And then just prepare what challenges and obstacles might you experience?

[00:50:39] Well, you're not going to know all of them

[00:50:40] But start going down the path and start having challenges

[00:50:43] And then you find your allies to help you through these challenges

[00:50:47] And then you find the people who are going to dissuade you or be against you on this quest

[00:50:51] And you're going to be on the journey and have your your trials and adventures

[00:50:55] And then through this process, you're going to transform

[00:50:58] grow

[00:51:00] sacrifice and hopefully

[00:51:02] Get fully to the other side of the quest or not. It's enough to just simply have the experience

[00:51:07] But hopefully you achieve the objective of your quest

[00:51:11] Yeah, you know, you always say like who are you are you and why now?

[00:51:14] Do you think those three questions would be able to apply to the quest?

[00:51:19] Yeah, like for instance, who am I? I'm someone who's always loved

[00:51:24] Games and and loved the challenges of of

[00:51:28] Competitive games a games like like a chess or you know other games that fall into that category might be

[00:51:33] poker or scrabble or checkers or backgammon. So I've always loved those

[00:51:38] I'm always a game player even day trading has kind of like a game

[00:51:43] So why am I?

[00:51:44] I'm

[00:51:45] Someone who at the time at particular in like late 2020 early 2021 or mid 2021

[00:51:51] I was kind of depressed for a lot of reasons not hugely depressed

[00:51:54] But you know, I was getting a lot of backlash from that article still like even a year later

[00:52:00] Uh, I had two books that came out and

[00:52:04] They didn't get they were good books skip the line was my favorite book

[00:52:07] I've ever written but it didn't quite get the reception. I would have liked

[00:52:11] Uh, I was having

[00:52:14] You know, I had moved I was having some trouble making new friends

[00:52:18] and and I was worried about

[00:52:22] You know, am I getting too old to pursue the things I love doing and

[00:52:27] The why that solved the why now which is like okay. I'm in my 50s

[00:52:32] and

[00:52:32] Now if I'm gonna do this now's the time to do it to get back to my old level and

[00:52:37] Particularly after the tv show the queen's gambit came out. It reminded me of my love for the game and I started

[00:52:44] Pursuing it so that was the why now

[00:52:46] So who are you?

[00:52:48] Why are you and why now are critical questions for this and also the plus minus equals technique that I described in skip line

[00:52:55] You know, you have an objective find a coach. That's your plus find people you can teach

[00:53:01] That's your minus because you don't truly understand something unless you could explain it simply

[00:53:06] And find your equals people are on the same quest as you so you can exchange notes and learn from each other

[00:53:12] Hmm. That's great. I think I think that I feel like that should be the next book. You're right

[00:53:17] Um, maybe I already wrote it though skip the line, but we'll see but I am you know

[00:53:20] Robert green went on the podcast when we had Robert green author of mastery and 48 laws of power

[00:53:26] He said oh my god

[00:53:27] You have to write the book on this and that kind of also kicked me off on the quest was his

[00:53:31] Encouragement you were listening

[00:53:34] And so you do need some sort of validations halfway through

[00:53:38] Yeah, you definitely the validation

[00:53:40] Somehow like I if I only if I only lost I would not be pursuing it at this point

[00:53:45] Like that would be too hard, but I've had I've got trophies in the room along the way

[00:53:50] So, you know, that's been good, but I also have to say

[00:53:54] A quest can also ruin your life too. How so like every quest I've had

[00:54:00] Has completely a hundred percent changed my life

[00:54:04] so

[00:54:05] The 3am thing I ended up leaving corporate america and starting a business this chess thing

[00:54:12] You know, I haven't been writing as much. It's distanced me from certain friends or family

[00:54:18] You know or work, you know, I could have been starting a business instead of

[00:54:21] Playing a board game, you know the past year or so. So it's really

[00:54:26] It messes you up a little bit too and it screws up your life in a big way

[00:54:30] sometimes for the good sometimes for the bad but

[00:54:34] Transform is not always a positive thing. You're going to transform some of it's going to be negative

[00:54:39] Hopefully more of it will be positive

[00:54:41] So I think we should title this

[00:54:43] episode actually, you know, how to screw up your life with a quest

[00:54:47] How does it ruin your life if a quest?

[00:54:49] How to ruin your life with a quest

[00:54:51] So because maybe I will ruin my life at this but we'll see

[00:54:58] You