Anxiety, Art, and Appetizers | Inside Jeremy Fall's Creative Journey

[00:00:06] Jay, you know what my favorite type of restaurant is? Yep. Restaurants that totally think out of the box. Like I love having breakfast at dinnertime for instance and I've always loved this. And so it was great reading Jeremy Falls book falling upwards.

[00:00:22] He's a restaurant guy, a nightclub guy, a bar guy but also just started a record label has worked with Jay Z, Quincy Jones, CNN, been involved in the NFT space. But his first restaurant that he started in LA was a breakfast at dinnertime restaurant

[00:00:39] that also was a bar slash nightclub slash whatever. And then he's expanded his creativity in all these different directions, which is inspirational. But this book that he just wrote falling upwards is all about him dealing with anxiety

[00:00:52] at the same time, this anxiety disorder, something that I can strongly relate to over the decades of my own career. And just really refreshing talking to him both about creativity, about food, about restaurants, about anxiety and how you deal with that.

[00:01:09] So here he is, Jeremy Falls author of falling upwards and also the creator of so many restaurants and other creative ideas. This isn't your average business podcast and he's not your average host. This is The James Altucher Show. Yeah, I really enjoyed falling upwards. Thank you. That's right.

[00:01:41] I always scheduled these things to finish right before the podcast starts and I was just really enjoying it. I felt it was really well written. Did you just finish it like today? Yeah, just finished it today. Oh, wow. That's a good.

[00:01:52] I got I paste these things because I do three podcasts a week. I paste my reading so that I know I'm going to finish the book the day of. That's awesome. By the way, one thing, Jeremy, I was totally psyched when I started reading the book

[00:02:05] and realized you're into my favorite type of food combination, specifically breakfast for dinner. I'm a huge breakfast for dinner fan. Absolutely. I mean, as am I, that was what started my career. Before we get into like the meat of your book, why do you think people don't usually

[00:02:23] usually do breakfast or dinner? It's like such a natural thing to have something sweet, you know, like pancakes or French toast or something along with, you know, some savory stuff at dinner. Yeah. No, I think it's. I think it's interesting.

[00:02:36] I think, you know, and there's probably a lot of history there where a lot of what American breakfasts are made of were actually, you know, influenced by Wall Street because, you know, all of those like oranges and all these different products were essentially what Wall

[00:02:54] Street had the most backing in at the time. So this whole orange juice glass of milk, you know, eggs and all these things reflect that. But to me, I think it's a very nostalgic nostalgic meal.

[00:03:09] Maybe it's because we were it was before we go to school in the morning or whatever it is. I think it's just like this very comforting morning first meal of the day. You're the most energized. You know, people always say that dinners are very social.

[00:03:22] I want to stop breakfasts or social because like when you meet someone for breakfast or I've had so many breakfast meetings, I've been insanely productive. It's like the first thing of the day. You're not tired. Your brain hasn't done a million different things yet.

[00:03:36] So what that said, I think it's this very comforting thing and breakfast for dinner kind of feels like it's like a treat. Like maybe when we were kids, something you didn't do. I don't know if there's some sort of forbidden thing about it.

[00:03:49] I'm not sure, but it seems like it's such a thing for everyone. Yeah, but you would think though, people always crash, for instance, after breakfast, if they have like, you know, pancakes or heavy carbs. Whereas if you eat like a heavy dinner steak, alcohol, the whole thing,

[00:04:06] you tend to not fall asleep after dinner unless you eat dinner like many hours before sleep. So it would just seem in terms of our sleep cycles, dinner would be better at breakfast and breakfast would be better at dinner.

[00:04:16] But all aside from just the taste and so on. Yeah, absolutely. There are a lot of actually cultures that their breakfasts are very savory forward and make things that we would have for dinner. For the traditional breakfast in the US is definitely not the standard for everywhere.

[00:04:34] So no, I've always thought that was interesting, but I'm glad that you're a fellow breakfast for dinner fan. So in your book, you started off with kind of the pop-up, what would you call it, bar, Genesis? And you were only 23 years old or,

[00:04:53] you know, and you approached this other club promoter that you worked with closely, Jared, to open that up. I think that was very inspirational in terms of like how you got your start, that people aren't just given opportunities.

[00:05:06] You have to kind of like reach out and really have ideas and get your opportunity for yourself. Yeah, absolutely. Maybe you could describe how that happened and then... Yeah, you know, people always ask me like the question I always get is, how did you get your start?

[00:05:22] And I mean, obviously if you trace it back to my really, really young days, you know, I started as a bus point and restaurant. I mean, I don't think there's a direct correlation to that, like necessarily where that's like a step you have to take.

[00:05:33] I mean, I learned a lot in terms of hospitality from like a skill standpoint. But to me, it's like, I think the biggest thing that I attribute my success to that I just have never thought about is going for something.

[00:05:50] And I know that that seems like a little bit cliche, but I don't know if it's because I'm a sociopath or whatever it is. But I just... If I have an idea, I literally do it. Like I don't have a filter there. And I think that...

[00:06:08] I don't know what that is and maybe that is attributed to mental illness or whatever it is. And I talked about obviously the book is a heavy mental health focus book. But like I've never not tried. Like, you know, the last year... Actually, no, this year's.

[00:06:24] And within the last year, I was like, you know what? I had never really done art before. But I've done little bit things, but I was just like, cool, I'm going to do this art piece.

[00:06:33] And I collaborated with CNN and dropped a Nelson Mandela inspired piece for the anniversary of his release from prison. And there was no question... And I've been a creative person, like that's something I've done.

[00:06:48] But like there was no question that I could just be an artist and do that and like a fine artist in that sense and did it. And the piece actually did really well. And then that led to them wanting me to do something for a gun control campaign.

[00:07:02] Like, but I've never... There's never been an opportunity presented to me that I wanted to do that. I was like, I wish I could, but I can't. I mean, obviously I can't be a heart surgeon. Right? Or like there are limitations to that.

[00:07:14] But ultimately, you know, I wanted to be in restaurants. I just figured it out. I want to do this. I just figured it out. Like there's no option for me to not figure something out. And I think that the way my brain is wired,

[00:07:26] that I think that's what's really helped everything because a lot of times it's fear that stops us. I mean, fear stops us. And I think there's two other things that you must have some conceptual relationship with.

[00:07:39] One, of course, is failure because you don't reach out to do things as much as you do if you're also not willing to fail. Because most things that we attempt will fail if we attempt lots of things.

[00:07:51] I will fail more times in my life than I will succeed. That's for sure. And it's like, you know what's funny? Like I've never... There was once a couple... When I was younger, I was throwing these like all age events. It's kind of starting a night life.

[00:08:02] I would get this venue, charge 20 bucks at the door. Those kids were like 12 to 17. Kind of like a better version of a school dance. And it was like this screen. It was a great idea. I still think it's actually... I mean, today is a little bit different.

[00:08:14] But some people... Like it wasn't as successful as I thought. It literally is one of the focus. But there's mention in my book, it's in every interview I've done. But so in that sense, if I look at that, that was a failure on paper from a revenue standpoint,

[00:08:33] from whatever however you want to quantify it. But like it was part of my story. I talk about it now. It's a good talking point that I've repurposed. Right? And so is it a failure? Like I don't...

[00:08:47] I also think that maybe like my conception of failing is skewed or it's just... And I'm not trying to say like, I don't believe in it. Like I'm not trying to sound like a, you know, it's like a business book. But I really...

[00:08:59] I don't really think about it. You know, I think a lot of entrepreneurs very much focus on financial capital. And I focus on like personal achievement. So even if something is not a commercial success... Which by the way is good and bad, right? Because to a certain extent,

[00:09:16] like as a business person, like there needs to be some sort of a financial success, right? For businesses and supporting people and everything. But I think when I look at it, I'm like, you know, I look at so many things that I've done

[00:09:29] that have built so much social capital, right? Like so many things over the years that I've done that may... I mean, if you look at... If you read my book, like the vast majority of things mentioned here like didn't directly correlate to making money. Like at all.

[00:09:44] But those stories and those things I've done allowed me to write a book and get published by one of the biggest publishers in the world. So it's how you look at it. No, I agree. I think... I almost think that's the danger of calling...

[00:09:57] of labeling oneself as an entrepreneur. Is that then you're contextualizing success or failure in terms of money? Did your entrepreneurship succeed or fail? That means the business succeed financially or fail financially? And I always kind of think... If you get, as you mentioned earlier,

[00:10:16] if you get a story out of it, if it becomes an experience that is a tattoo on your life, basically, then that's a success. So like this... And you had social impact with Mandela NFT. Like that's... All those things are important as opposed to... You're right.

[00:10:32] I think we cut sometimes... Because money is a path to freedom, we sometimes get just consumed by it as opposed to just putting it in its rightful place. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I mean, if you look at Forbes top right of the billionaires, right? First of all, is...

[00:10:50] Well, depending on who is in the... Is Jeff Bezos today more successful than Elon Musk? Tomorrow, more successful than Bill Gates today after... Like I don't... I mean, I don't know if success is measured at that point. Like I think there comes a point where

[00:11:04] there are people that are... You look at someone like Dan Gilbert, who's lower on the list, obviously still high up there. And he's done so many amazing... What a failure. Exactly, right? Like he's done so many amazing things and revitalized Detroit and paid his employees during the pandemic.

[00:11:20] Like that's pretty successful to me. I don't know... There's people and even going on a much more relatable side. Like there are people who have net worth in the under $100,000 and I would say are just as successful as Jeff Bezos.

[00:11:36] So like I don't think that that's the metric. It just... It depends how you quantify it. So once you look at success as like not a... It's like essentially being able to carve your own path and make your own rules.

[00:11:46] I think the measure is a lot easier to digest. I think it's a lot. It allows you to just take more risk, make smarter decisions and not try to mimic someone else's path. Because essentially that's how you're going to fail

[00:11:58] is if you try to reduce something someone else has. When you're doing this first thing that you did, you approached this guy Jared. He right away gave you this opportunity to do this pop-up bar above one of his clubs. And that first attempt at success though...

[00:12:30] And we're going to talk about your anxiety and something you and I share. Do you feel like that first attempt at breaking out of the box, at making a name for yourself? Were you a little more anxious there or did youth kind of fuel confidence?

[00:12:43] That's a great question. I mean youth definitely now when I look back and like holy shit... Are we allowed to cuss on this? Sorry. Yeah, of course. I was like holy shit like... We only cuss on this. Yeah, I was going to say I had...

[00:12:54] I need to catch up but some of the things I'm like... I had more balls back then than I do now. You know what I mean? So youth definitely is in there. You know, I am part... And I actually think the new generation has it even more than 90.

[00:13:06] Right? Like I'm what they call like a millennial. Right? I'm dead center. And like I think I'm right in the middle like what a millennial is. You know, and we were like this generation everyone was like these kids are crazy. They're whatever it is.

[00:13:20] We grew up with seeing their rides of the internet, the ride, the creation of social media and everything. These new kids, it's like they don't know a world without it. Right? So I feel like being able to write our own rules

[00:13:32] and did come with seeing people essentially create themselves out of nothing and building personal brands became as important as major brands. And now all of a sudden you have someone from anywhere in the world that can become... Carve them a path because what they want to be

[00:13:48] and it's really democratized success in that sense. I think that may have helped for sure. I was very early to the social media. Like I was when I was doing these all age club events. I mean, I had Friendster and then I was on MySpace.

[00:14:04] I came up with this like I was like wait, if this is the social standard of what success and fame is, how do you just instead of trying to build it, why don't you just find a way to manipulate it? Right?

[00:14:14] Like and I realized I was like these were called friends at the time they were any followers. There's it's similar. I think Facebook still like that but these are flowers. But I was like if people are MySpace famous, MySpace successful and the threshold was like 10,000 people. Right?

[00:14:27] I have a million followers on Instagram now but back when it was 10,000 people, I just set up all night and just added whatever how many thousand people I had to do to get to 10,000. And I was just like if this internet social media thing becomes

[00:14:40] like the standard, I got to figure out now how to focus on that and marketing more than anything. I did through that definitely probably neglect more monetary opportunities that other people did. And that's why there are a lot of people out there

[00:14:54] at my age who have a lot more money than I am and always will. But ultimately like I focused on marketing building a brand. I was like if I build Jeremy Fall before I build the career aspect

[00:15:08] then at least I can do whatever I want versus trying to you know achieve success in this thing that way I can carve my own path. But at the same time Jeremy Fall, it wasn't like you were just it wasn't like the Jeremy Fall brand was empty

[00:15:23] and then you filled it up with followers and tweets and quotes and inspirational quotes and something like that. Like you had a skill set, you were building bars then nightclubs then restaurants and then changing the concept of what a restaurant brand is

[00:15:41] to include like art and creativity and so on. So in terms of like let's say advice you would get to someone now about building a personal brand it's not like create something out of nothing. You had to create a brand couldn't be a lie.

[00:15:54] You had to have something backing it. Yes and no I mean to a certain extent like and I appreciate that you're very generous the confidence but ultimately I think that I was definitely the last one in my circle

[00:16:08] and around people that figured out what they wanted to do when they grew up. Right? I'm still I still have one of my biggest missions and everything I do is reimagining the every day fucking the status quo just really being in this

[00:16:24] this like you can be whatever you want you know like I had no corner training but I was like you know what my open restaurants I'm gonna learn. If you if you put me on a show right now competing on a technique against chefs

[00:16:37] I would get my ass handed to me. Like you know I mean like that's not what I do like I came up with the ideas I have a palette like I'm creative I did restaurants but

[00:16:45] then people were like starting calling me a celebrity chef and I was like cool whatever I struggled in the beginning because I had you know a lot of creative struggle with defining themselves it's like

[00:16:53] if you ask you know any creative that were known for being a musician they're going to tell you they're not a musician because they're all these other things so I think that's the thing that everyone shares but

[00:17:03] for me it was like I it was a long time like there were so many people that just had no idea what I did for a living and like because I had the following I had the connections and then you know I started doing bars

[00:17:15] if you're like oh he's a club promoter and all of a sudden it's like you know like they try putting these buckets and then it wasn't until like I was 26 in 2016

[00:17:23] you know that I was and I know that's still young but considering that by the time I was 26 I had been in nightlife for actually 10 years because I started when I was 16 working in nightclubs that I started getting this shape of what I was.

[00:17:36] I was a restaurateur because even with the nightlife like there is no term like nightclub and persariah like it's just these weird things right so I became a restaurateur and they able to be as a chef and or whatever it is and then

[00:17:50] like that was a long time like I still think that how you say the Jeremy Fall brand was probably less defined before that and and it started with not really anything

[00:18:01] before I was able to build it like now am I an author like yeah and you can add that to my things I did a book but do you know what I mean it's it's it's it's more like projects

[00:18:12] that have accumulated and people will define and add to my title but I made it so that I could do whatever I wanted whenever I wanted. I still struggle with it today I think now I'm just

[00:18:22] I'm comfortable with just being mean like I you know when every time I'm going to do an interview they're gonna be like what title do you want your name and it's always going to

[00:18:28] make me cringe so I'm always telling them like put whatever you want because I don't know what to tell you you know and they're like okay well we'll just put Jaffer we'll put restaurant I'm like that's fine that's what people need that that's cool but it's you know

[00:18:41] I'm starting less I'm starting to give a shit less and less but that's recent that's very recent. It's probably recent because like you said like now you have a book now you have an NFT

[00:18:52] collections now you have you know you've known for the restaurants and your creative approach to that so you have the confidence that you're bringing into the brand you know I bet you

[00:19:03] feel you know you talk in the book about the chef thing and how you were asked to go on you know food network and cook some of your the dishes from Nighthawk and you felt imposter syndrome

[00:19:14] I bet you don't feel imposter syndrome as much I don't think it ever goes away but I bet you don't feel as much right now. No I don't as much right now that is very true I actually wrote

[00:19:23] a short essay about it like about you just called do you know who I am and it was about like this thing in Hollywood and like not knowing who you are and stuff this is the catch

[00:19:30] tunnel but like if I look if I look at you right some people are going to call you writer your website says entrepreneur and angel investor your Wikipedia says hedge fund manager

[00:19:41] podcaster you know yeah I can't describe what I do either like people say what do you do for a living there's no there's no words for it yeah exactly and it's like you know like to someone who

[00:19:51] is a hedge fund manager like I might be your biggest nightmare because it's like putting capital behind some or I might be the biggest breath of fresh air because you're investing

[00:20:00] in a person and that person is going to do what they do right but it's like if you look at things in a black and white nature or like how VCs look at things a lot of times and it's just like

[00:20:08] onifying growth and and obsessing risk like you know it's that area I've really noticed throughout my career there are times where I've conflicted because I live in a reality that I've created and a lot of times the traditional systems don't understand that reality you know

[00:20:26] I had this really amazing deal with one of the most successful people in the world and lasted that six months we tried to get through it and we couldn't figure it out because

[00:20:35] and not because there was anything wrong like we were both everything was sprayed and mutual and everything it just was you know I come from a world where I was like if I want to be on tv

[00:20:45] and do a show or if I want to do this it doesn't necessarily need to flow through this entity because I'm it's going to help indirectly and then they're used to if you're a founder

[00:20:55] and you do like it's not the entertainment the Hollywood I know that stuff is if you're a founder you're eating Doritos on the couch until this thing gets to a billion dollars and you sell it

[00:21:02] and then whatever but I was like I have different expenses than that so anyway I might be going on tangent but all that to say you know it's interesting to talk to someone like you because it sounds like you understand both sides of the equation.

[00:21:18] Definitely because I've been both on let's say the financial side and the very creative side and and also to my something you said earlier resonates with me which is that you could have

[00:21:29] done things like your peers and made potentially much more money but instead you pursued the things you love so there I would go years at a time not doing the things that would maybe create the

[00:21:42] optimal amount of money but you know you only live once and you have to you know sometimes make sacrifices and do the things you love or else your life's over.

[00:21:51] Are you a spreadsheet person like would you know okay so are you a you're like a believe in the founder here's a check kind of guy well I probably shouldn't say it's that easy but yeah it's not that easy it's

[00:22:05] more like I even when I invest I have to invest in things that I think this is exciting and this is big and there's a potential for like huge return but but I'm not necessarily the type

[00:22:17] person who enjoys investing that's why for me investing is supposed to fuel the rest of my life so I want it to be rare and infrequent so it has to be special so I have to be good at it

[00:22:29] so it's as rare as possible. That's really interesting like if you have a gun with 10 bullets when you shoot those bullets you got to make sure you kill someone so that's a very I mean

[00:22:40] the whole thing is like you go after what like a hundred and hope that like 10 do okay and two kill it like it's kind of that thing it's just it's a numbers game right? It's a numbers game but I really want

[00:22:52] as I like that's what they say about VCs is that only one out of ten needs to be a winner or two out of ten but I really aim for a 10 out of ten like I don't and I don't succeed in that but

[00:23:03] that's what I really really work hard to aim for because I know I'm not going to do a lot like a lot of VCs will just spread it around I don't I'm very very I don't do a lot of stocks at all

[00:23:15] I'm just very focused on making sure I can enjoy other parts of my life. Yeah that's interesting you know like like I own a comedy stand-up comedy club for a while and I pursued stand-up comedy

[00:23:28] for years and years that's not something a VC should do if they want to be a successful VC. But why not? No I agree with you that why not but if they're going to be a top venture capitalist

[00:23:41] and and you know invest in the next Uber probably they're not going to spend a lot of time hanging out on comedy clubs which is what I did for many years you know so it's all there's give

[00:23:48] and take there's sacrifice and whether that shows up in a successful brand or changed your career in different ways it almost doesn't matter to me I kind of go I'm like you I think I sort of go

[00:24:00] where the compass is pointing at that moment. Yeah no that's that's you know it's interesting yeah and the mark Cuban passed on Uber so it's you know you wouldn't be the only one but no that's interesting

[00:24:11] I think you know I think one of the biggest problems in fundraising is that it's too celebrated as a success so yeah you're right people are like congratulations we raised 130 million to me like that's a fucking liability like 100 I can't sleep at 95 oh someone a thousand dollars 100

[00:24:29] dollars like let alone 130 million I think at that point you can't even quantify because it's so much money but it's too celebrated and I think that like people are like we haven't launched yet but congrats champagne bottles we raised all this money it's like okay like that's great

[00:24:45] but you know I have more respect for like the self-made you know like the founder Spanks she sold her 100% of her equity like you don't need to raise money yeah yeah and she was I mean

[00:24:56] she's been on the podcast Sarah Blakely I know her and her husband and she was a hustler and she wasn't hustling with venture capitalists she was hustling with you know Neiman Marcus and and

[00:25:08] manufacturers and figuring out like you she wasn't a fashion designer but she made one of the most popular fashion items on the planet so you know that's like grit and hustle and

[00:25:20] I always think the best way to be an entrepreneurial success is just to simply be profitable day one which is not as hard as people think I mean sure you you put up some upfront costs and

[00:25:32] and you have to have a sense of how you're going to make that money back but you're right if there was one time I raised money and the next morning I woke up like scared to death like

[00:25:41] anxious because I wasn't 100 confident in the idea and so I literally just returned the money and shut down the idea just because I didn't at that moment I didn't think it would succeed

[00:25:51] and that takes that takes a lot of intelligence though to do that build identify you know certain things like it's better than doing that then a lot of people would have just tried

[00:25:59] because not their money you know I can't do that I can't do that and and I think this is somewhat related like this reminds me of your a lot of the book you discuss your anxiety and

[00:26:10] and I've had this all my life like since I was a kid like just super anxious all its time even at those moments when I'm happy like it's a as you know it's like a almost a biological thing

[00:26:19] or it is a biological thing and you know maybe you could talk about when you first realize this anxiety that you had was something you you have to treat yeah you know I had anxiety my whole life I didn't know what it actually was

[00:26:34] so I didn't know I had to treat it and then I found out anxiety in like my early 20s that I found anxiety disorder in my mid 20s just by like self diagnosis right like nothing

[00:26:44] professional and then as I got excuse me to my early 30s it just it started becoming more and more crippling right so my whole thing with that is you know I I really decided to work on it

[00:26:57] I would say in my well when I was 30 or late yeah or about turn 30 so I would you know I used to drive like a really anxious outside green light I'd be panicked I would turn yellow so yellow I'd be panning turn red it was just

[00:27:12] constant shit was just throwing them all the time anxiety and you know when you when it's all you know one you don't realize the extent of it you don't know what life can be without it

[00:27:23] and then two it just seems like the idea of rewinding your brain to live completely differently and think differently it's a lot more intimidating than it sounds right and you don't know or you don't know so you don't know it's on the other side I hadn't also

[00:27:38] understood that you know my whole thing was out of fear I'm gonna lose my creativity I'm losing my drive and lose everything but then I have found out that you just you lose the spiral you don't lose the anxious thoughts I learned that through therapy and then through

[00:27:52] psychiatry and then I decided to get medicated for it but I was very anti-medication before I was like this is gonna be my creativity I'm losing my personality I actually never felt

[00:28:01] more like myself after I got on medication and you know I was lucky that my therapist my psychiatrist were two people that weren't pushing me to to medicate they're you know first they were

[00:28:14] like I don't know if you even need it and then as time passed realized more and more than I needed it now I'm on a very high dose of lexicron now but um you know I'm also six with seven right

[00:28:27] so like it makes sense but um I you know I would I would I was in the shower went there was something that was bothering me like for the last week and I was in the shower and and I thought about and I

[00:28:37] was just like I thought about and then I was like okay whatever and I realized in that moment I was like holy shit there's like like if you think of it like I would go have the anxious slot and

[00:28:48] then I would shoot down into a spiral now I just had the anxious thought and it kind of just vanished in the back of my head and that was the weirdest feeling because it was something like

[00:28:59] that was bothering me every day and that was the time where I think the medications are kicking because it takes six weeks a lot of time for it to fully kick in so from there I was just like

[00:29:08] did you ever try like Xanax or colonopin instead of uh lexopro? yeah so I I had tried yes Xanax is not something you dig every day but but yes I had but colonopins like the daily

[00:29:23] you can take colonopin every day yeah that sounds but tense but it's a very addictive drug yeah yeah I was gonna say I I had had Xanax before for like surgery and stuff like that and like

[00:29:34] it definitely helps but I'm a lot I'm I'm I'm basically hot right lexopros make you hot it's just it's like a supplement you know like do like do we take vitamin C like you don't feel

[00:29:45] vitamin C but it's just there working it's thing in the background um I have no problem taking lexopro every day for the rest of my life you know there are a lot of these things with

[00:29:53] pharmaceuticals being addictive and whatnot obviously that's like very serious thing um I think that taking a pill that helps your anxiety that you know you essentially and look I'm not a doctor so

[00:30:08] by no means am I am I like pushing medication I think it worked for me everyone has their own journey I know people who can meditate I wish I could meditate I can't um or I don't think

[00:30:17] I can at this moment but but with that said like I to me if it helps and isn't detrimental if the positive really outweighs the theoretical negative then for me it's worth it right it's just like am

[00:30:31] I gonna pop a clonopin or Xanax every day no because that's a more dangerous I actually even know that clonopin is not you could take daily by the way I just found this out right now with the

[00:30:40] if but like that's obviously like it's not as recommended like lexopro is really like one of or so loft whatever it's one of the more mild ones you could say I guess is it even mild

[00:30:53] you know I don't know uh like in 2010 I was both going broke or close to going broke and super anxious to the point where I couldn't function at all like I was just up all night

[00:31:07] like the guy from a beautiful mind writing numbers down and trying to figure out if I was going to go broke or not and my doctor prescribed clonopin and it was both the best and the worst

[00:31:18] thing because it like blocks anxious thoughts like you almost can't think an anxious thought and so I was able to be productive again but it's so addictive and it is long-term detrimental

[00:31:28] that you know you have to be very careful so I you know lexopro is is definitely a different family of drugs are you still gloping I'm still weaning off of I mean I basically stopped my

[00:31:42] anxiety at a very high dose in 2010 and it's taken like a decade or more to wean off from it wow like it's dangerous to wean to get off it too fast at least that's what I've had experienced

[00:31:53] was when I tried to get off too fast it's almost worse than never having it is definitely worse than never having had taken it that's not a burden like you could have seizures so

[00:32:02] all thing yeah wow so but and also there's there's there's long term like side effects that we'll see if I experienced but it's it's not it's not a it shouldn't be a long-term solution for anybody I

[00:32:14] think you know again not being a doctor as well but it was a very good short-term solution I'll say that but long-term it's not 10 years is having to we off that's that I mean I applaud

[00:32:27] you for that that's that's courageous to we off over that long no matter how small I get the dosage like every six months I kind of cut the dosage in half no matter how small I get it if I ever try to

[00:32:38] just zero it I start getting all the side effects immediately so it's it's it's horrible wow wow and I remember I haven't really talked about it actually so it's you know it's it's in I

[00:32:50] could see this too like I'm after this podcast I'm meeting my daughter was about to graduate college and she seems to have inherited my anxiety and so very happy person except when I can see those

[00:33:02] moments of anxiety happen and it's like almost you know a biological thing or again it probably is a biological thing because she inherited exactly what what I had so no absolutely I mean I mean

[00:33:17] look if there's I don't feel an addictive personality as well but obviously that plays a factor to with I mean I have one it's in my genes so so I mean that also always got to be careful of

[00:33:27] like any sort of things like that you know just have you tried micro dosing mushrooms I have it and a lot of people recommend that to me one friend of mine as has been on this

[00:33:38] podcast many times has totally recommended it in every possible way and I just and you know people many you know well-known people have probably Tim Ferriss is a big advocate of micro dosing a lot of people are well-known advocates of micro dosing and I should try that

[00:33:54] yeah I'm a I'm a big fan of it I'm someone who had a cannabis edible when I was like 21 and almost went to the hospital because I didn't melt down so never touched weed or anything I'm very sensitive

[00:34:07] to those kinds of things and I can micro dose mushrooms so like that's when you know it's like you know that I do it every day for me it works no but I could the thing I have since every two

[00:34:19] three days but I absolutely could every day there's it doesn't slow down my ability function to be honest my tolerance is very high because I'm on Lexapro so it I know it like it like reduces

[00:34:33] the effect of the effect of it and there's some that's the size or just the effect of it but it's um it yeah but it does work though and it's in the back of your head it's not like you take it

[00:34:43] and then you're like in like Xanax like you feel it hit right but mushrooms are just kind of like in the back of your head like it's kind of like Lex from the sense that like you don't feel high

[00:34:53] for it but just they're doing its job I'm curious like how much of the anxiety you think might also be related to your choice of what to do in life like being involved in life and

[00:35:21] like you mentioned one of your early ventures the um King Eddie Saloon the downtown LA bar that that you skid row yeah yeah you reopen that sounded like a pretty stressful experience you mentioned early on in that um two people who you worked with actually committed suicide like

[00:35:38] what what was happening yeah I mean you know the nightlife world can be very depressing like bars I mean it's late hours it's alcohol like you talk you know I actually grew up right

[00:35:50] off of skid row so I had gone back there it was very close where I grew up this bar like very like blocks away right so it was cool I was like going back where I was and then I was kind of like this

[00:36:00] is like this is shit dude like this it's it's sad it's you know I came back I restored the bar people were writing rest in peace Jeremy fall on the walls like by the way I just I just

[00:36:12] wanted to interrupt there RIP Jeremy fall that would be a great name for a restaurant too as soon as I saw that in the book I thought huh he should I wonder why if he thought about

[00:36:26] making that the name of the restaurant and leaving that graffiti up I mean there's a lot of people I'm sure that dislike me out there that would have go to that but but yeah I mean it's it's

[00:36:37] you know it was it was I think it was definitely very hard on the psyche you know a lot of these again late shifts like it's very dark right it's dark drinking people are depressed like there's a lot

[00:36:48] of these like bars these local die bars especially that people um that I think it really rubs off on you right like from the second you like park your car and walk down the street and like it's

[00:37:01] just it was a very sad environment yeah two of the employees committed suicide very closely apart and then you know my business partner Jared commits committed suicide years later we weren't partners anymore but a few years ago committed suicide um you know it's a world that is that

[00:37:18] will really eat you alive like the even in restaurants like I mean you know I've I have been on the cover of magazines I have been you know again at Montevie and all these things and

[00:37:30] regardless and even like with the rise of the celebrity chef the the the options are really praise or you're treated like absolute shit right unfortunately you're treated like shit more often than not right and that's something I never tolerated in any of my places

[00:37:47] especially now with my staff like I would I would take someone treat me like shit over anyone else really that's how it worked for me but there's still this idea that you're a

[00:37:59] servant I am there I'm paying you're here to serve me I'm the only person that matters in this restaurant I know better than you if this is not good this dish is not good it's not that

[00:38:11] it's not to my liking it's just bad I like there's a lot of this mentality that's like weighs you down especially like high intensity environment we were moving around and like there's a high like I can't name a lot of people that leave a restaurant shift

[00:38:25] or a bar shift and aren't completely awake when they leave right this adrenaline like so it takes a lot of you you know you do work weird hours when your sleep people are awake

[00:38:37] and vice versa I'm like you know the weekends weekends you're busy time you know it's just like it's a very weird way of living it's very passion driven right and I'm talking about

[00:38:45] like when this is your career not when you're a wealthy attorney and you have a restaurant investment I don't know why you never know but you know as you have that as a you know as

[00:38:56] like a hobby or passion like that's different when it's your career and no matter what side of you are and obviously people tend to you know like said the praising side tends to increase

[00:39:07] like if you're on tv and so that's just like human nature but but it's just it's a very exhausting you know career like I have friends of mine I was talking to a friend of mine who's

[00:39:19] like a very known chef and he was just like you know I'm gonna be on the road until I'm fucking 70 like 75 like checking on the restaurants working the line and it's like even you're successful

[00:39:30] in just straight culinary in terms of just straight restaurants like there's not enough money there's money where you can live well but there's not enough money that you can put away some massive retirement to then be able to stop early right and retire that's why all

[00:39:45] these chefs go for a lot of tv consumer packaged like products are you know great revenue stream like that's what a lot of them end up going to that because you become more and you go into the

[00:39:55] branding business and not the restaurant business anymore you know it's a different world so so that's what I mean is that could that up the chances of an anxiety to sort of

[00:40:04] triggering being in that sort of business as opposed to let's say being a lawyer where of course that's a big anxious sort of business but there's a path there's a well-known a well-trodden path

[00:40:14] you work a lot of hours you take on a lot of cases you make partner and then you ease into retirement yeah I think everyone in the business has had a moment where they've done something that's not

[00:40:25] themselves like there is a time where I was throwing pans and knives at my like and I and it made its way across to the other to the other restaurants because every general manager

[00:40:37] master room was like like are you okay because like it wasn't something that I would do like I've always been pretty strict and I like things done a certain way but I'm like I've never been

[00:40:49] like one to scream one to throw shit like that's just not the way I've done things ever and it was just like a really specific situation where I just lost my mind in this was before I

[00:41:03] was Medicaid too but lost my mind because I had asked for things done multiple times is really important and essentially some of the team members were rude to one of my other employees

[00:41:14] like extremely rude and then when I came in they were taking selfies instead of like working like their own asses like it was like it was like an extreme case right like and I just like lost my shit I started yeah I'm throwing shit no HR complaint because

[00:41:28] it was so I'm like wait no one even no one even filed anything it was just like shit for Jeremy to do that like we fucked up badly you know so you know one thing that's really fascinating with what you do is that

[00:41:39] with your personal brand it's not like just being a chef like take Wolfgang Puck we know he's a chef we know he's a chef more than we know he's a restaurateur like he's a chef's chef and

[00:41:52] you know so he's brands that in various ways could sell cookbooks could sell products could sell sauce whatever and but you've taken that brand in a different direction which is it's almost like food and being having a restaurant is an outlet for your creativity oh but here's another

[00:42:10] outlet doing NFTs here's another outlet like what what is this record label deal you just you just worked on yeah so it's funny because all of it has a food through line whether it was obvious or not

[00:42:23] so the record label you know working we actually it's called probably label I it's so I co-own the record label to warn the records and our last project is we dropped a pizza concept pop up with

[00:42:35] a D-disc called probably pizza and it was in New York and we did branded boxes our thing was collected it's very much in the collector mentality you know situation but I basically I use food

[00:42:49] as a platform for creativity for conversation and and so it's something universal everyone eats so for me it's I'm going to use this to do whatever I want really right and from there kind of rewrite

[00:43:04] the rules like my last restaurant mixtape was a collaboration was like my mixtape like how a musician would do it in restaurant form I had dishes that featured artists that collaborate on you know I had Quincy Jones a collaborator Vic Mensa Jaden Jaden you know Jaden Smith at

[00:43:20] the time Brandon Boyd from Incubus search tank on from System of a Down like I took a bunch of different people together they would expect and they all did things he would normally do

[00:43:31] a lot of them sketched drew paint surged it like a statue of a recycled Yamaha keyboard into a lamp and I it was when you walked in the way I'm describing is not what you would expect you

[00:43:44] expect like this like all this ram shit but we integrate into the decor where it was like your peeling layers to an onion you'd be eating and be like what is that way what's that

[00:43:52] Quincy Jones like the musician and you walk around it's like it would create conversation with the servers it was really layering the experience as much as possible and I like to do things like that they're different you know a lot of things have not

[00:44:07] necessarily been successful or haven't been understood or people but they've always moved it forward I remember there was this this I think it was the heart reporter that said that my larkish sensibility was both us that some people found it grating and some people found it like it

[00:44:24] was there's some like really hilarious lingo uh it was like some people find it like endearing and some finding grating or something like that but it was interesting to even do collaborations with

[00:44:35] like Quincy Jones in a kind of a restaurant type of atmosphere like what was that collaboration or what was like a specific example one of these collaborations well it is so Quincy actually did

[00:44:47] a sketch like a drawing that was like hung up on the wall it's like pretty simple it's a cool sketch you know I did a lot of they all did something different right that they a lot of it was art

[00:44:59] though that we'd use as decor did anyone suggest a recipe yeah I had some artists that were tokyo monster actually had a Korean collaboration influence on one of the dishes so yeah so I

[00:45:10] had like actual features on the dishes which was cool like I want people like oh I don't know how to cook I'm like I don't care give me ideas like that's like we this the whole point is to just kind of

[00:45:20] fuck around but it's funny because for night hawk when I first opened it I got shit on I got like praise and shit on I got like I was getting like dubbed in Japanese and in like vogue like and all

[00:45:32] these different things but I got a lot of people that are like is this or there's articles or like is this a restaurant there's some bar I can't make up its mind and I really

[00:45:39] realized I was like damn the industry is really fucking narrow-minded like food is like food is the initiative that lacks the most innovation in all of culture we're making flying cars and like

[00:45:50] music went from like to sets cassettes to CDs to streaming and fashion evolves faster than it's just like and food is it's it's the same shit over and over again and like this was that when

[00:46:02] I dropped night hawk all of LA was kale salads hamachi crudos charred octobuses every menu was the same it was like we have craft beer we have an old-fashioned with almonds we have no

[00:46:12] fashion of walnuts it was the same shit every time and I was like cool I'm gonna drop carbs and I do spikes you're all milk I'm gonna do breakfast for dinner and then it got praise and shit on

[00:46:22] the same week I got was like it was LA weekly that was like this is what is this is ridiculous Jeremy must be a pothead this whole thing that was literally this article I got best

[00:46:33] restaurant in America the exact same week and then I ran into the writer at an event and then she was like oh hey like whatever like obviously and then I was just I like show the

[00:46:43] article up and I have two phones so I show the article up and I show the other thing and then I just did answer it knows it and I was just like I don't I don't mind criticism I don't mind I

[00:46:53] actually enjoy it I like I love being proved wrong proven wrong sorry because it teaches me how much I have to learn and I'm stubborn in a lot of ways but when it comes to learning and growth

[00:47:06] like I love to be proven wrong um but I like when there's backing and educated explanations and it's not just pointing at a business because you didn't like it or it wasn't you know

[00:47:24] it wasn't what you expected and then you have this platform to bash businesses when it's already hard enough and I was lucky to be on the good side of it the side that got pressed the side

[00:47:36] that I had a fault I haven't fallen everything I look at it for the people that don't and start in such a hard industry and that takes a hit like people don't realize how Yelp reviews like how

[00:47:48] much that affects restaurants when there's a bad Yelp review the entire restaurant is talking about it all the employees like did you see that one started like it really fucks with us like more than

[00:47:58] people realize you know so you don't think your skin over time but you know I think that that stuff always upset me definitely because you know I would take it personally when it was like not

[00:48:09] constructive yeah and you know the interesting thing though with nighthawk is that and this relates to what you said earlier that the rest we can have flying cars but the rest of

[00:48:19] the run industry is like the same old thing that also leaves room for a lot of innovation which is what you did like the concept of you have this concept in the book which I like a lot and

[00:48:29] I've called it something else in the past but you call it paper clipping the idea of taking two good ideas and combining them to create a perhaps better idea or at least interesting

[00:48:38] attempts I call it idea sacks where you take take breakfast food and put it at dinner or let's you know take a sushi and put it inside a burrito and as a sushi burrito or whatever

[00:48:51] and I like how you ran with that in the food space and it gives you kind of this license for creativity that that is unique and welcome in the food industry yeah you know it's

[00:49:05] it's so it's welcome there's so I always was careful to knock it into the hot cheeto cover donut shit like that was just like the unnecessary we're going to force this for viral content like

[00:49:18] like it was a thing of the like now I'm kind of like okay we don't have to do that you know and I actually was part of starting the crazy serial trend like after we launched it like we were

[00:49:28] getting knocked off all over the world so so I was a part of that problem to a certain extent but not the same way like everything we always made everything from scratch we were

[00:49:36] always like my chefs were all like very came from fine dining right like that was always like the way we went so it was different whether you realize there was subtle you know so so yeah that you know to me

[00:49:48] I think innovation doesn't have to be completely reinventing the wheel you know I think where it's not welcome in food contrary to popular belief is like people self-proclaimed foodies as much

[00:50:00] as I hate that word all those people they're going to be like oh yeah I went to this restaurant they had like this crazy dish etc I had the chicken and the Caesar salad like it's a lot of times you

[00:50:10] have to have those to make it's it's your it singles for music right it's like you have the commercial radio hit and then you can do the stuff you actually want to release right but you know I

[00:50:20] you always need to have those hits like you always do and the problem is it's such an expensive endeavor like if a musician wants to do this like very dark album like Brian Jones from the Stones

[00:50:30] did like a Moroccan album that like was completely unsuccessful but who cares because he could and he could do it right like I can't I'm not in a position where I can go into some weird ass restaurant

[00:50:44] like today sign a lease it's gonna cost 20 to 30 thousand dollars a month in Los Angeles put people's jobs on the line run a 40 50 thousand dollar a month payroll and you just you just can't

[00:50:56] it's too capital intensive before you even open the doors right and the margins are very low like I always tell people this and like food does not cost what it should I know the numbers and so I

[00:51:07] just be like wow this place is expensive and I'm like it sure it is but I'm telling you what it cost and it's not they're not you know it's not like they're raking in millions of dollars in profit

[00:51:19] like by the time you get food people won't realize like oh well I don't understand like I can buy a bond and I can buy this you know and make it at home it's like well first of all you

[00:51:28] should do that but second of all there's so much overhead line cooks chefs like before it gets to your plate there's so much labor so many things that go into it and they're making it times two three

[00:51:40] hundred a day right when it's successful so people like food does not cost what it should cost you know and when I'm saying this I'm saying this like from a restaurant experience experience

[00:51:51] right I think that a lot of times people don't realize that I think that food obviously is a means of survival and should not and there should be options that are affordable like everyone needs

[00:52:02] to be able to eat but you're on the you're on this like in between where you know these these two things need to coexist and I think the standard of like what food should cost is to democratize

[00:52:14] for people to understand because they don't have contacts where they're like I can get a bullpasta get a bullpasta here it should cost the same thing it's like it's very different right

[00:52:22] so there's so much context and lack of understanding of how a lot of these operations work so that's where I disagree where food doesn't welcome that much innovation it does if you're you

[00:52:38] James are coming to my house I'm like I'm gonna try this shit and like cook it but if I were to try to commercialize it like you know it's hard and if I showed you the numbers as a angel investor

[00:52:49] you would be like I fuck that like we're not trying this I I believe you like I've been in not in that industry like you have obviously but I've been I've looked into that industry

[00:53:01] and it is a very difficult business which is why brand is so important because you want have to want you have to have people want to go to your restaurant not just for the food but

[00:53:10] for many reasons they have that the more reasons they have for wanting to go to your restaurant essentially the better it is for the for the business in a lot of ways not just pricing but

[00:53:18] recurring revenues and so on so it's absolutely business and it's very hard you know but again that's why it's great how you've been able to take your your personal branding in this industry

[00:53:32] and now get the record label do something with CNN whether or not it's profitable is not as important as the experience and building the brand extending the story into all these other

[00:53:44] outlets and that's a really good advice for for people to observe and see how you work with it I'm curious on on the one thing about the anxiety disorder that I'm always curious about is when do you know the difference between something's a disorder and something's just

[00:54:01] anxiety like again you're in a very anxious type of business that the nightlife the restaurant business what you just described was almost in the anxiety inducing kind of yeah i'd have a good discussion about pricing with customers and you know that will raise the anxiety of anybody

[00:54:19] so how do you know when something goes from just a lot of anxiety to disorder yeah I that's a great question I think I think it's when it starts having a negative impact on your overall life outside the situations that directly give you anxiety right so

[00:54:39] to explain if it's like oh I'm anxious because I'm figuring out prices that's one thing if it's I'm sitting at home on the couch and have anxious I feel anxious and I'm not sure why I think that's a disorder I was feeling anxious for no reason

[00:54:56] and then it was accentuated with reasons right so driving and thinking the light's gonna go yellow there was really no in let me show that's a reason quote but there was no really direct correlation

[00:55:06] as to why I should be panicking if the light is being yellow because I've been driving for like 15 years um Jesus 18 years uh 17 so there's no reason that I should be you know panicking

[00:55:20] about stuff like that or anxious like I would be anxious for no reason like I'd be like why am I anxious and I just I wouldn't even notice it people would be like you okay and I was like yeah why

[00:55:29] why what do you think I'm not okay you know it's like it was a very weird thing like you know so yeah and how is it affecting your relationships at the time oh my god it was disaster um

[00:55:45] I shouldn't say like that like that dramatically I had I it was tough for them you know I mean like definitely especially I've been in relationships where the other party was anxious as well so that's

[00:55:56] always a great combo um but you know I think it's I commend the people that were with me through all that like I owe everyone who's with me friends you know matriculous ships family like

[00:56:10] you know looking back I'm like fuck like I this is a lot like person trying to build something because it's like blind confidence a little bit of insanity and like naivete to believe that you're

[00:56:23] you're literally can do these things better than anyone and like rewrite the rules for like an industry that's existed for centuries and you know there's definitely a lot of blind confidence

[00:56:36] and naivete I would say and then I'll top that being anxious that things aren't going to go well and being so anxious that things do go well because there's no room for error and like

[00:56:44] that's a lot to be around you know that doesn't like scream like Netflix and chill and and did you feel like you wanted to write this book because you've gotten through the other

[00:56:56] side of it or is it sort of an ongoing uh process of dealing with this you know anxiety even though you're taking the medication you're going for the therapy you know do you still find that the battle rages although it's more moderated down yeah I mean it's

[00:57:18] that's interesting I mean like it's definitely gotten better now mainly because of medication right I mean I would say that that's definitely a bit of the main thing but I don't know I really don't know I think it's I don't know I actually don't know

[00:57:40] yeah I think it's hard to know because you don't really know what other people are experiencing in terms of anxiety so you don't know and obviously again your business industry life in general is

[00:57:49] anxiety inducing but and you don't know what you would be like if you weren't on the medication so it's hard to I agree it's a hard question to answer it definitely it definitely attributed

[00:57:59] to my success for sure it definitely did it still does you know um I decided to write the book because I was just at home and I was like I got to get off of Instagram and like really

[00:58:14] having mental health issues and I came back two months later after I did a post about it and tons of people responded people I didn't follow me that I didn't follow up celebrities a lot of men

[00:58:25] and I was like shit like this was needed and I guess it was during a time where the pandemic everyone was home and more focused on having the time to actually respond to these things so it's

[00:58:33] like that day to side write the book and then that was it I also can't imagine the sort of going into a pandemic with a bunch of restaurants uh and having your brand around restaurants every

[00:58:44] restaurant shut down I mean fortunately there was a uh these bailouts that helped restaurants and restaurant employees and so on but I'm sure that was a stressful time sold my company at

[00:58:55] the end of 2019 oh I had no more restaurants by the time we hit the pandemic so I had gone acquired in 2019 so I had no I didn't have to deal with any of that oh that's good so uh and so right

[00:59:07] now what's your what are your main things that you're working on where you know where can people find the latest stuff that that you're involved in Instagram is probably the best thing honestly

[00:59:16] Instagram social media that's where I post all my stuff you know I have this like vision and actually I haven't even talked about this yet so it's kind of nice but I have this vision

[00:59:26] to make organic cool and like it has its place in the in the fitness and the health industry but there are a lot of things like you know I started like taking a burger for example and I was like

[00:59:39] if I break this up like there's no reason a burger should be that unhealthy it's meat chore sauces do not need to shouldn't be as unhealthy as they are like at all you know bread

[00:59:54] can be fine like there's nothing in there that really should be that bad for you you know like it's just when you're cooking a patty and it's in its own juices and adding butter and oil and

[01:00:07] it's canola like there's like just you know a lot of those things that are added are bad so I started thinking about sauces is one of the big things and and you know I don't know how much I

[01:00:17] was supposed to say but like that's essentially what my new thing is is just kind of recreating some of these heads giving people that comfort food but stuff that's not going to kill them

[01:00:24] and like doing that's consumer packaged goods and etc well what I like about this too is this relates to your some of your earliest memories on being involved in food like when you made a spicy ketchup

[01:00:37] when you're 12 years old so that's one of those that's one of the sauces okay good and you I'm sure you have the bloody Mary ketchup and things like that yeah it's good to connect your memories

[01:00:50] of your nostalgia with your reality and that's what you're doing with this yeah absolutely yeah I'll send you some stuff I'd you know I'd love for you to try it and see what it is it's

[01:01:03] really cool it's you know I'm like very obsessed with punk culture and and kind of that you know punk culture very much mimics this lawless break the rules do whatever you want in like a non

[01:01:14] cheesy way but like I really like that era what that did to open the doors to a lot of different ideas and music and there's something about that that I connect to so that's a huge

[01:01:24] inspiration for all this food I feel very much like you're inspired and this is just a gut impression but not like pure punk but punk when it merged with both rap and metal like a rage

[01:01:40] against the machine so you even have a chapter of rage yes the hype machine yes and earlier in this in this podcast yes are we allowed to cuss I'm sure you remember when the BBC asked

[01:01:51] rage against the machine hey do a song but don't curse and the entire song Zach De La Rocha was saying basically you know F you don't tell me you know or I forget the exact words of F you

[01:02:05] I'll do what I want to F you I'll do it I think only verse in the entire song it was and actually it was a very melodic song so it was good but they're one of my favorite bands so anyway uh

[01:02:22] Jeremy Fall author of Falling Upwards thank you so much for coming on the the podcast your books of inspiration I really love what you're doing and love the directions you've taken the brand and your books are really inspirational in a lot of different ways in terms of creativity

[01:02:37] discussing mental illness and anxiety and discussing your specific businesses it's very very inspirational I encourage people to check it out two of my daughters are either waitresses or promoters or have done a mixture of all these different things uh I've owned a bar

[01:02:54] in in my life when I owned a comedy club it was also a bar and it's completely different than owning a nightclub or a restaurant but I have a sense of the anxiety of the business and it's

[01:03:06] just an area that I've always been interested in so I appreciate you writing about it and coming on the show and discussing you know the the anxiety issues as well