A Note from James:
I’ve done several hundred podcasts, but if people asked me who were the one or two people I most wanted to have on the show, Garry Kasparov would be at the top of the list. He was World Chess Champion for twenty years, and I’ve followed his career since the early ’80s.
His book, Deep Thinking, tells the story of his matches against Deep Blue, but it’s really about what may be the most important relationship of this century: humans and machines.
Episode Description:
In this From the Archive episode, James talks with Garry Kasparov in his first appearance on the show. Kasparov looks back at the matches that shaped him: his comeback from a 5–0 deficit against Anatoly Karpov, the psychological side of elite competition, and his historic showdown with IBM’s Deep Blue.
They also talk about why a computer beating a world champion did not settle the question of intelligence, how technology changes the kind of work people do, and why fear of making a mistake often causes the mistake itself. Kasparov shares what chess taught him about preparation, adaptability, mentorship, and making decisions when there is no obvious right move.
This conversation was recorded in 2017; the political discussion reflects that moment in time.
What You’ll Learn:
- Why adaptability—not strength or intelligence alone—is what helps people survive major change.
- How Kasparov used a 5–0 deficit against Karpov to build confidence, patience, and resilience.
- Why fear can paralyze decision-making when the stakes are high.
- How to think about AI and automation as forces that create new possibilities as they eliminate old roles.
- Why mentors, pattern recognition, and disciplined practice matter in chess and every other field.
Timestamped Chapters:
- [02:05] Fear, choices, and the danger of paralysis
- [03:06] James meets Garry Kasparov
- [05:11] Deep Thinking and the question of machine intelligence
- [06:35] Growing up with chess in the Soviet Union
- [10:11] Botvinnik, preparation, and training through distraction
- [12:30] Facing Karpov and falling behind 5–0
- [20:20] The value of adapting under pressure
- [23:53] Psychology and what separates champions
- [26:16] Kasparov’s playing style and coaching Magnus Carlsen
- [30:18] Why Deep Blue forced Kasparov to change his game
- [31:25] AI, automation, and the future of work
- [38:38] What happened in the Deep Blue matches
- [42:32] Chess, Go, and the limits of human accuracy
- [46:08] Fear, risk, and making better decisions
- [48:56] The Kasparov Chess Foundation and education
- [57:08] Russia, Putin, and political opposition in 2017
- [63:46] How to adapt to technological change
Additional Resources:
- Deep Thinking: Where Machine Intelligence Ends and Human Creativity Begins
- Winter Is Coming: Why Vladimir Putin and the Enemies of the Free World Must Be Stopped
- IBM’s history of Deep Blue
- Kasparov Chess Foundation
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